View Poll Results: Which would you prefer as a lesser evil option in a multiethnic and/or multiracial society?

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  • (True) multiculturalism, aka multiple, separate cultures sharing the same space and retaining their ancestral heritage.

    33 75.00%
  • Assimilation/integration of immigrants, aka "when in Rome, do as the Romans do". Immigrants would for example, need to learn the language of the country they are in, adopt its dress code and adapt to its culture.

    11 25.00%
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Thread: Assimilation/Integration vs. Separation - Which Model Would Best Serve a Multiethnic or Multiracial Society?

  1. #11
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    you also have to think about the future too. many of those who don't assimilate will continue to stay in their host nations and will eventually raise families, and have children who will continue to raise their families, etc. this begs the question whether you want assimilation now, or later, because assimilation will eventually happen, if not the first generation, then the later generation. and if assimilation happens later, there is greater potential to change the state of the native population due to the higher number of people involved.

  2. #12
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    If a certain rate of immigration is inevitable, then assimilation is always preferable, BUT ONLY if we are talking about controlled immigration: very small numbers, also arriving at large intervals, allowing some time for the previous group to assimilate.
    And, needless to say, we are talking about European immigrants in Europe, and not non-Europeans in Europe, that should also be 'tested' for meeting the criteria of assimilation in the desired country before entering.

    For example, I think the Albanians would have assimilated much better in the Greek society, had they been fewer and scattered across the land, and not mass invasion of millions of them, swarming mainly to Athens (and especially my area eyes... Same goes for Serbian, Polish, Russian, etc, immigrants to other European countries.

    Multiculturalism is never an option. I don't like to see african, arabian and asian stores and mosques in germanic/european land, next to monuments and native shops. Not even Polish or Russian stores in german(ic) or greek land, much as the site of greek tavernas in Stockholm was also awkward and unfitting.

    As a rule of thumb, if a certain population cannot eventually assimilate (racially, culturally, spiritually) they should not be allowed to enter the country at all. But it's less than a perfect world we live in.

    So, I ain't voting, it's a sneaky, sneaky question :p

  3. #13
    Senior Member Kurtz's Avatar
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    Nothing is irreversible with multiculturalism. Deportations, expulsions, incarcerations are still possible and, even better, are much easy to perform if immigrants gather together in certains parts of cities and lands. We can identify them with great ease, too.

    On the other hand, assimilation means assimilation of foreign blood, something awful and that can't be changed at all. What's to do with a half-German half-Somali individual? Expulsion, of course. But what to do with a German with 1/16 Somali blood? These kind of situations are moral dilemmas, and it becomes very hard to deal with them.

    Never in human history have societies like ours worked to "integrate" so many alien elements. While there has been quite some "multicultural" cities in the ancient world, Alexandria, for example, being one. If each group stays closed and cares about its unity, there is hope, even if it is deeply frustrating to see masses of aliens cluster two blocks away from your home.
    "The heavenly motions... are nothing but a continuous song for several voices, perceived not by the ear but by the intellect,
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    in the immeasurable flow of time."

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SineNomine View Post
    I'd prefer multiculturalism to the assimilation of non-Europid elements. At least then they remain segregated.
    Exactly. :

    If we demand assimilation we also have to harbour the immigrants. If we leave their ethnicities intact, they can be repatriated. Immigrants whose ethnicity is close enough that they can easily be assimilated is a different matter of course, but that's sort of irrelevant, since the question was about those immigrants we don't want to have.

  5. #15
    Senior Member DanseMacabre's Avatar
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    Multiculturalism or assimialtion? That's like be asked if you'd rather be shot or given an arsenic capsule. Both result in death for the Germanic peoples.

    I prefer no non-european immigration (and if I had my way European immigration would be restricted to Germanic countries) and deportation of non-europeans already here. Nothing less.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagna View Post
    We are unfortunately in a situation where we cannot ignore the foreigners in our countries. Which do you prefer and why?
    Neither. I prefer Acculturation; which essentially means that the foreigners pretty much adapt themselves to the surrounding culture without necessarily giving up their unique identity. Their heritage becomes a hybrid of both the host culture and their particular culture. This is pretty much happened with the various immigrant groups in America - especially with Eastern Europeans(as I know first-hand).

    So in my case I'm not necessarily an Ukrainian per se but a Ukrainian-American.

    This probably the only real sane way to deal with the immigrant problem; if for no other reason it combines the best of the other two. Assmiliation is based upon an abstract understanding of a nation's heritage, a relic of the Industrial concept of standardization. Multiculturalism is built upon an abstract understanding of diversity, and fails to realise that communities need some commonality in order to live together.

    Acculturation essentially makes it so that we can live together without actually losing our specific identities. It's built upon the basic logic that a nation is a community of communities.

    I've actually been pondering upon this issue for quite some time especially as how this relates to the Muslim issue in Europe. That is, whether or not a geniune "Eurabian" identity is possible for Europe's Muslim populations - eg. an Arab-Muslim identity that is somewhat compatible with European culture. The goal of course would not be to fully integrate them into European society; but rather create a less hostile Muslim sub-culture in Europe.

    Islam is not a monolith; there are many divisions within it. We're seeing this now in Iraq. Muslims in Europe are no different.

    I often recall the example of Islamic Spain; where after the initial conquests their territorities actually fragmented into various different states. Not only that, many Islamic fundamentalists from North Africa when visiting Spain were often appalled at what they saw among the Spanish Muslims - their lack of "piety" and the fact they were more willing to cooperate with Christians than Muslims elsewhere.

    Anyways....just my thoughts for now.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Rassenpapst's Avatar
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    Is Dagna talking about cultural assimilation or racial amalgamation?

    Multiculturalists are all for racial amalgamation.

  8. #18
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    i would prefer assimilation as this way social problems stemming from cultural differences can be avoided to some degree.
    plus, this way the dominant culture stays dominant and can be preserved.

  9. #19
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    European immigrants should be assimilated and all non-European immigrants should be deported.

    As long as the non-European immigrants are still here, they should behave according to the norms of modern Western civilisation. In other words, they should behave as if they were culturally assimilated, even if they aren't. This doesn't mean that they shouldn't be deported even if they appear to be assimilated.
    Neither assimilation nor integration will solve the problems. The only thing that would work from my point of view would be separation. And this separation should be done on a global level, not on a communal level. The western countries here, the islamic countries there. And a very tall border between the two worlds please.

    -- Valkyrie

  10. #20
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    I am against both.


    Note: i am from the Netherlands so do not compare the situation with America that has a none-white history.

    second, when i talk about assimilation, integration or multiculturalism i am talking about None-Western people, not a German who is living in The Netherlands.

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