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Thread: No Need for Immigrants in the US

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    Senior Member Kurtz's Avatar
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    No Need for Immigrants in the US

    Point/Counterpoint: No Need for Immigrants Here
    Debate: Let's Stop Welcoming Undocumented Immigrants

    OPINION By MARK KRIKORIAN
    Oct. 2, 2007

    There are two questions to consider when deciding whether to stop welcoming illegal aliens. First, do we even need the flow of labor that illegal immigration represents? And second, whatever immigration policy we do adopt, can it be enforced if we make it easy to live here illegally, as we do now?

    The answer to both questions is No.

    There is no economic need for foreign labor, legal or illegal. There are an estimated 12 million illegal aliens in the United States, with perhaps 7 million of them in the labor market — either working or actively looking for work. But contrary to myths about "jobs Americans won't do," there is no major job category that is dominated by these illegal workers. The Census Bureau groups all jobs in the country into 473 categories, and in 2003-2004, only three small categories had even the tiniest majority of immigrant workers, legal and illegal. The large majority of America's taxi drivers, housekeepers, janitors, dishwashers, landscapers and construction laborers are native-born Americans.

    More generally, the supporters of illegal immigration claim that low-skilled labor is a precious resource, like oil, and because we're running out of it at home, we have to import it from abroad. This, too, is false. On the contrary, immigration (legal and illegal) is actually crowding low-skilled Americans out of the labor market altogether. During the first half of this decade, the highest five-year period of immigration in our history, the percentage of working-age, native-born Americans without a high school degree who were in the labor force fell from 59 percent to 56 percent, and for those with only a high school degree, participation in the labor force fell from 78 percent to 75 percent. And American teenagers (aged 15 to 17) took an even bigger hit, seeing their labor force participation fall from 30 percent in 2000 to 24 percent in 2005.

    Apart from the specifics of policy, we need to consider how to enforce whatever path we decide on. And here again, welcoming illegal immigrants is a mistake. The key to enforcement of immigration laws is not simply arresting and deporting violators, though that must continue, and even increase. At least as important is making life as an illegal alien as difficult and unattractive as possible, in order to dissuade new illegal settlers and persuade those already here to give up and go back home. The result would be not a magical disappearance of all illegal aliens but rather a reduction in their numbers over time, allowing American businesses — and even the illegals themselves — an opportunity to adjust to the new reality.

    We have been pursuing the precise opposite of this strategy for a long time. Our welcome for illegal immigrants has included driver's licenses, in-state tuition subsidies, mortgages, bank accounts and even de facto permission to work on fake or stolen Social Security numbers. It's a wonder we don't have more illegal aliens than we do.

    Ending this welcome for illegal immigrants and adopting what's been called a strategy of "attrition through enforcement" is already proving effective. Since the collapse of the Bush amnesty bill in the Senate this June, there has been a modest increase in enforcement efforts at all levels of government, federal, state and local. The results have been striking: USA Today recently reported on "Illegal immigrants moving out," while The New York Times has found that "Fleeing stepped-up sweeps by the American authorities, illegal immigrants to the United States, mostly Mexican, are arriving in growing numbers at the foot of the bridge in this Canadian border town seeking refugee status."

    If we keep up the enforcement, we can actually get control of this problem; my own Center for Immigration Studies has estimated that a comprehensive enforcement effort could reduce the illegal-alien population by half in five years. Once we accomplished that, we could then consider what to do about the remaining illegal population.

    Contrary to what you read in history textbooks, America is the least xenophobic society in all of human history. Although there is no "need" for additional foreign labor, Americans should, and will, continue to welcome those foreigners who have come to live among us legally. But the welcome we've been extending to illegal immigrants must come to an end if our immigration policy is ever to regain its credibility.

    Mark Krikorian is executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies. This opinion piece is part of a live public policy debate series called Intelligence Squared U.S., which is an initiative of The Rosenkranz Foundation. For more information about the debate series live in New York, go to www.iq2US.org.
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    ''On the contrary, immigration (legal and illegal) is actually crowding low-skilled Americans out of the labor market altogether.''

    So sad and true. It has never been so hard for a low-skilled average American to find a decent job, thanks to crazy politics.
    "The heavenly motions... are nothing but a continuous song for several voices, perceived not by the ear but by the intellect,
    a figured music which sets landmarks
    in the immeasurable flow of time."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurtz View Post
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    ''On the contrary, immigration (legal and illegal) is actually crowding low-skilled Americans out of the labor market altogether.''

    So sad and true. It has never been so hard for a low-skilled average American to find a decent job, thanks to crazy politics.
    You'd probably get the reply that: "low-skilled Americans aren't doing the jobs and therefore more migrants are needed".

    Politicians are so sucked up into their lies they're believing them.

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    Senior Member SwordOfTheVistula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by United Faith View Post
    Politicians are so sucked up into their lies they're believing them.
    Most of them come from upper middle class or wealthy families and have never had to work those type of jobs
    Contact Congress on immigration
    Contact Congress to reject banker bailout
    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." --Ben Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by SwordOfTheVistula View Post
    Most of them come from upper middle class or wealthy families and have never had to work those type of jobs
    I don't understand. What's their socio-economic status got to do with what I said? That wasn't meant to sound blunt or rude.

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    Account Inactive Huzar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by United Faith View Post
    I don't understand. What's their socio-economic status got to do with what I said? That wasn't meant to sound blunt or rude.

    Probably means the usual GAP between ruling class and lower classes..........american politicians (as the European ones) don't realize and couldn't care less about these questions.....


    However.........yes, U.S. doesn't need immigration in this moment. And in the past 3 decades neither. Actual titanic immigration is simply a reflex of a violent desire to live in an advanced nation. They (hispanic etc.) simply want your cars, your houses, your jobs (and possibly your women, since the "whitening" of their offsprings means an higher status in their latin american racial hyerarchy). Of course i doubt your politicians explain the things in this way during a political campaign.........

    They tend to see a racial invasion as a social class phenomenon. They fear to pronounce the term "race".

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    Here's a link to an article from that was originally published in the "Atlantic Magazine", in June, 1896. http://www.faculty.fairfield.edu/fac...ker/walker.htm. Things never change. There were business then, clamouring for cheap labor to "do the jobs Americans woulod'nt do. The author, Francis Walker, does a great job of explaining the negative effects of immigration on the native population, including why Americans refuse to do certain jobs, because of competition from immigrants. He also explains how immigration negatively affected population growth among the native born. The immigrants who were coming in large numbers in 1896 were South Italians, Slavs, Hungarians & Russian Jews, but Walker also goes into detail about the negative effect of immigration from the immigrants who arrived in the 1830-1860 period. Most likely he is talking about the Irish-Catholics ( and to a lesser extent, French-Canadians), as Walker was a New Englander, and witnessed the negative effects of the migration of this group into what had been an overwhelmingly Anglo-Saxon Protestant region.

    This article could have been written in 2007, simply change Eastern Europeans to Latinos & Asians.

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    I don't believe the quote "They do the jobs Americans don't want". It should be more like "They do the jobs that don't pay Americans enough". Of course with the influx of illegal and cheap labor many businesses will lower their wages in order to attract cheap laborers and repel the native populace. This in turn makes in harder for lower-skilled American workers to find work that will adequately pay them.

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    Senior Member SwordOfTheVistula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by United Faith View Post
    I don't understand. What's their socio-economic status got to do with what I said? That wasn't meant to sound blunt or rude.
    That they are more likely to believe lies about a situation in which they themselves have never been in-in this case working low-paying jobs.
    Contact Congress on immigration
    Contact Congress to reject banker bailout
    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." --Ben Franklin

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