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Thread: Do You Consider Yourself To Be British & Do You Value The United Kingdom?

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    Senior Member Elgar's Avatar
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    Do You Consider Yourself To Be British & Do You Value The United Kingdom?

    This question is for members from the United Kingdom, though naturally any forum member's contribution is appreciated. Do you consider yourself British? Personally I see myself as being English and British equally, and I value the United Kingdom, which now seems to be under threat, possibly as a way of ensuring our assimilation into a federal Europe.

    I believe the current system of governance (ie. the West Lothian Question) is unfair, however, and that this needs to be addressed either with an English Parliament or by excluding MPs who represent Scottish, Northern Irish and Welsh constituencies from voting on issues that affect England only.

    I am delighted that in the last decade or so there has been a resurgence of English nationalism, accompanied of course with the 'rediscovery' of the Flag of St. George, however we have accomplished some truly great things under the Union and it would be a shame to throw that away.

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    I do not consider myself to be British at all.

    Anyone who supports the Union between England, Scotland, Wales, Ulster, logically should also be favourably disposed towards the European Union. It's the same phenomenon.

    Britishness is inherently a melting pot / multicultural term, however dominated Britain is by England. It's race mixing "lite". IMHO, either you're for England and self-determination, or you're some kind of internationalist.

    England and Scotland are different enough that the relationship harms England, given the strength of the Scottish Labour Party. If we're going to end foreign rule from Brussels, we also need to end foreign rule from Scotland... otherwise what's the point?

    I at least have some respect for "pan-Europeanists" or "pan-Germanicists". They're trying to draw as big a line as possible around (racially compatible) folk. British nationalism is just ridiculous. They bitch about Europeans ruling "Britain", but are OK with the votes of Londoners affecting what happens in Edinburgh or Cornwall, and vice versa. And even worse the BNP come out with some crap about a formalised federation with Ireland. That's all apart from the idea of a "British nation" being obscene, which it is.

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    Senior Member Freydis's Avatar
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    I also do not consider myself to be British.

    OEN you're evil. You basically said everything I wanted to say. Grrr.
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    I consider myself English.

    I can understand people of mixed English, Scottish, Welsh etc descent describing themselves as "British" but, since I have no known ancestry besides English and no connection to Wales or Scotland, it would make little sense for me personally.

    Also, I was raised with my mother always saying to me "We're English, not British. Anyone can be British" and that has lodged itself in my brain.

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    Senior Member Elgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneEnglishNorman View Post
    I do not consider myself to be British at all.

    Anyone who supports the Union between England, Scotland, Wales, Ulster, logically should also be favourably disposed towards the European Union. It's the same phenomenon.
    No it isn't. Firstly, we conquered Wales, Ireland and Scotland, though the latter fought for and won their independence, thus we resorted to bribery to complete the United Kingdom.

    We have a common, shared heritage - most Welsh, Scots and Irish people are incapable of speaking their 'own' languages, partly through coercion (eg. the Welsh Knot - http://www.visitwales.co.uk/server.php?show=nav.6875 ) and partly due to migration.

    Our soldiers have fought gallantly side by side - the Northern Irish arguably sacrificed more in the First World War, than any of the home nations.

    The Ulster Division has lost more than half the men who attacked and, in doing so, has sacrificied itself for the Empire which has treated them none too well. The much derided Ulster Volunteer Force has won a name which equals any in history. Their devotion, which no doubt has helped the advance elsewhere, deserved the gratitude of the British Empire. It is due to the memory of these brave fellows that their beloved Province [sic] shall be fairly treated. Captain Wilfred Spender

    After the war had ended, King George V. paid the following tribute to the 36th Division saying, "Throughout the long years of struggle ... the men of Ulster have proved how nobly they fight and die."


    The Irish (including the Ulstermen, as partition didn't occur until 1922) were not even conscripted, they volunteered!

    Of course, there's also our global Empire, too.

    Britishness is inherently a melting pot / multicultural term, however dominated Britain is by England. It's race mixing "lite". IMHO, either you're for England and self-determination, or you're some kind of internationalist.
    Well I think the damage has been done, if you look at the waves of immigration from Ireland and to a lesser extent Scotland and Wales, then I imagine it would be quite difficult to find many Englishmen who aren't partly Celtic - I am no exception. It's closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.

    I am certainly not an internationalist, on the contrary, if the Union broke up I think we'd be more reliant upon Europe and the EU than ever - and this is undoubtedly true of the Celtic fringe.

    England and Scotland are different enough that the relationship harms England, given the strength of the Scottish Labour Party. If we're going to end foreign rule from Brussels, we also need to end foreign rule from Scotland... otherwise what's the point?
    The idea that Scots rule the English is a myth. I agree that they have an inordinate amount of power within the Labour Party, however England has enough MPs to have a handsome majority in Westminster - the Tories rules with virtually no MPs in Northern Ireland, Scotland or Wales - there might have been one or two literally.

    I at least have some respect for "pan-Europeanists" or "pan-Germanicists". They're trying to draw as big a line as possible around (racially compatible) folk. British nationalism is just ridiculous. They bitch about Europeans ruling "Britain", but are OK with the votes of Londoners affecting what happens in Edinburgh or Cornwall, and vice versa. And even worse the BNP come out with some crap about a formalised federation with Ireland. That's all apart from the idea of a "British nation" being obscene, which it is.
    I believe the BNP would like some sort of federation of British nations. Each country would enjoy autonomy and a great degree of self-governance, however we would be united economically and militarily.

    The term 'British' can be geagraphical, too - eg. The British Isles.

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    Senior Member SineNomine's Avatar
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    I am not English, but if I were I would never consider myself to be British.

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    Senior Member sophia's Avatar
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    My family is English and I've always considered myself English, most of my childhood and teenage years I've spent in Wales. I went to a Welsh language school, although I do not speak Welsh (actually I resented being sent there so much I passively avoided learning the language). I generally received a lot of hostility for being English which made me profoundly aware of my being so.

    As for the UK, I think that right now we have the luxury to think about breaking things up like the UK but personally whilst I think it makes sense to have different internal policies for the countries of the UK, it doesn't make sense to have separate defense because the sea just makes so much sense as a border.
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    Lumping all the nations of Wales, England, Scotland and Ireland together under the moniker 'UK' was just a way of getting their hands on more taxes really wasn't it.

    England and Scotland had existed as separate sovereign and independent states with their own monarchs and political structures since the 9th century. The once independent Principality of Wales fell under the control of English monarchs from the Statute of Rhuddlan in 1284. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom#History

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    Senior Member Loyalist's Avatar
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    Being of mixed British Isles descent, I identify as British and staunchly support the Union. Given the level of inter-mixing between the various Germanic and Celtic groups of the region, and the cultural assimilation that has occured with the various unions over the centuries, I see very little concrete distinction between the English, Scots, Irish, and Welsh, except for the blind nationalism that prevailed throughout the Celtic nations from early days, and which is now starting to emerge in England. I doubt there exists a "Germanic" English person without some degree of Celtic genetic input, and vice versa. Perhaps I'm a unique case, but all of my UK-born grandparents have some admixture from at least one of the other Home Nations.

    Furthermore, where would it stop? Dissolve the UK, and what's next? Cornish independence? Northumbrian independence? Each perceived ethnic group from every corner of the UK would use this precedence to start screaming for their own autonomy.

    It was the combined efforts of individuals hailing from each of the regions that built Britain and it's Empire from the ground up. This baseless, inherent dislike between the groups of the British Isles will only be injurious to the long-term future of the people. Take into account your ethnic and cultural similarities, and the accomplishments made when working together as one people, instead of having a narrow-minded focus on destroying what was once, and could again be, so glorious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Edward Elgar View Post
    Well I think the damage has been done, if you look at the waves of immigration from Ireland and to a lesser extent Scotland and Wales, then I imagine it would be quite difficult to find many Englishmen who aren't partly Celtic - I am no exception. It's closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.
    Indeed, the damage has been done. I'm not sure how "English" Liverpool is, for example, however white some areas may be.


    The idea that Scots rule the English is a myth. I agree that they have an inordinate amount of power within the Labour Party, however England has enough MPs to have a handsome majority in Westminster - the Tories rules with virtually no MPs in Northern Ireland, Scotland or Wales - there might have been one or two literally.
    It's not a myth, it's exhaustively documented. Need I mention two of the three main Party leaders are Scottish, and the other is a Cameron. Then what of the Speaker of the House, the previous Lord Chancellor. The Chancellor (UK finance minister) is Scottish. Then the fact that in 2005 in England, the Conservatives polled more votes than Labour, yet finished with less English seats. Add to that total the Scottish MPs sent to Westminster. The UK political scene is riven with Scots. The Scottish Labour Party is, in effect, ruling England.


    OneTrueLoyalist:


    Being of mixed British Isles descent, I identify as British and staunchly support the Union. Given the level of inter-mixing between the various Germanic and Celtic groups of the region, and the cultural assimilation that has occured with the various unions over the centuries, I see very little concrete distinction between the English, Scots, Irish, and Welsh, except for the blind nationalism that prevailed throughout the Celtic nations from early days, and which is now starting to emerge in England. I doubt there exists a "Germanic" English person without some degree of Celtic genetic input, and vice versa. Perhaps I'm a unique case, but all of my UK-born grandparents have some admixture from at least one of the other Home Nations.
    Is your support for the Union educated by your varied background? Does this compromise your outlook on the Union? It may be better to think of a "British Isles" ethnicity, but to understand that the constituent nations should look after their own affairs.

    I think many BNP supporters have this kind of English + Irish/Welsh/Scottish background. I wonder if they really speak for England.

    Furthermore, where would it stop? Dissolve the UK, and what's next? Cornish independence? Northumbrian independence? Each perceived ethnic group from every corner of the UK would use this precedence to start screaming for their own autonomy.
    If necessary, yes. Self-determination is very healthy. Personally I'd welcome at least a Cornish Parliament if not full independence. That way the Cornish can protect their uniqueness away from the interference of London.

    It was the combined efforts of individuals hailing from each of the regions that built Britain and it's Empire from the ground up. This baseless, inherent dislike between the groups of the British Isles will only be injurious to the long-term future of the people. Take into account your ethnic and cultural similarities, and the accomplishments made when working together as one people, instead of having a narrow-minded focus on destroying what was once, and could again be, so glorious.
    My opinion is that the temperament and outlook of the English is easily different enough to the Celtic nations, to justify independence. They see the world in a different way. An English Parliament would govern differently over England compared to the current British Parliament. That is the key factor.

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