View Poll Results: Do you have to speak a Germanic language to be Germanic?

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  • Yes!

    104 49.52%
  • No!

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Thread: Is Speaking a Germanic Language Necessary to Be Considered Germanic?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterThaGreat View Post
    Good question indeed! According to many here, she'd be Germanic because she's of Germanic blood! Well, she is native to germanic language and culture as well, but turned her back towards her heritage! She is Germanic, I don't think loyalty to a non-Germanic country makes one non-germanic as such. Her children would be another case, though! There were actually many, well not too many, similar occasion in Swedish Finland at the turn of 19th and 20th century and as results our numbers are only 6% of the population today contrasted to 25% in the 17th century!
    What about people like my distant relative Arvid Horn who was of Finnish ancestry?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arvid_Horn

    Or a certain ancestor named Hästesko af Målagård? (Not closely related to the Hästesko who is infamous for http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anjalaförbundet )

    There are some noble families of Finnish extraction in Finland and it would be utterly ridiculous to say that they aren't Germanic because they were completely culturally assimilated to the highest echelons of the Swedish society.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rassenpapst View Post

    There are some noble families of Finnish extraction in Finland and it would be utterly ridiculous to say that they aren't Germanic because they were completely culturally assimilated to the highest echelons of the Swedish society.
    Quite an ancestors you have, indeed!


    There were some Aristocrats and high bourgeoise families of Finnish origins, (this is pointed all the time by the Finnish nationalist in these forums as they take the urban Aristocrat/Upper-Classes as the only reference population of Finnishswedes), There were definitely some amount of Finnish blood among the upper-class Finnishswedes, however many of these families retained back to Finnish as the language "war" began at turn of the 20th century in Finland. Many of them left their Swedish surnames and took back the original Finnish one. Most of these distinguished families of the Finnish origins simply had one Finnish male establisher who got wealthy or estate in the house of nobility, they obviously married Finnishswedish ladies as did their sons and their sons...they obviously came germanized by blood despite the initial Finnish contribution. These folk often got continental Germanic influencies as well, especially from Germany. The situation was obviously very different in the poor and rural Swedish enclaves in the coastal areas, these people lived segregated lives apart from inland Finns and kept their Swedish settler blood to a very high degree. However phenotypically these "mixed" upper-class Helsingfors Finnishwedes are also the group which is phenotypically one of the most Nordid groups in the whole the Scandinavia!

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  4. #43
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    I voted yes, but I do believe that ancestry is more important than language in determining this.
    Freedom in the Germanic sense means inward independence, the scope for research, the extension of knowledge, and true religious feeling. Freedom for near eastern hybrids and swarthy mongrels means unrestrained license to destroy other cultural values...To grant outward freedom to everyone without distinction is to deliver oneself over to racial chaos. Only freedom as a bond between racial kindred guarantees the highest development. ~Alfred Rosenberg

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterThaGreat View Post
    Most of these distinguished families of the Finnish origins simply had one Finnish male establisher who got wealthy or estate in the house of nobility, they obviously married Finnishswedish ladies as did their sons and their sons...they obviously came germanized by blood despite the initial Finnish contribution. These folk often got continental Germanic influencies as well, especially from Germany. The situation was obviously very different in the poor and rural Swedish enclaves in the coastal areas, these people lived segregated lives apart from inland Finns and kept their Swedish settler blood to a very high degree. However phenotypically these "mixed" upper-class Helsingfors Finnishwedes are also the group which is phenotypically one of the most Nordid groups in the whole the Scandinavia!
    In fact, Germanic influence in Finland is very ancient. The Scandinavian Bronze culture arrived in the southern and western coastal regions of Finland with Scandinavian immigrants, who had a lasting effect on Finnish gene pools and language. The Finns became genetically similar to the Scandinavians and received Proto-Germanic loan words. These early Scandinavian immigrants were linguistically and genetically assimilated into the indigenous population.

    Source: http://www.mankindquarterly.org/samp...ccorrected.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vingolf View Post
    In fact, Germanic influence in Finland is very ancient. The Scandinavian Bronze culture arrived in the southern and western coastal regions of Finland with Scandinavian immigrants, who had a lasting effect on Finnish gene pools and language. The Finns became genetically similar to the Scandinavians and received Proto-Germanic loan words. These early Scandinavian immigrants were linguistically and genetically assimilated into the indigenous population.

    Source: http://www.mankindquarterly.org/samp...ccorrected.pdf

    Exactly! However this has nothing to do with Finnishswedes as your above mentioned quote says these Scandinavian immigrants were "Finnicized" allready couple thousands years before the first ancestors of contemporary Finnishswedes arrivived in the middleages.

    In order to enhance my "Uralics" (The swedish translation wasn't available), I loaned a book my Jouko Vahtola, "Suomen Historia" (Professor of Scandinavian and Finnish history in Uleaborg) It's extremely interesting. In a nutshell Finland was first significantly populated by the fenno-ugrian speaking Finnics from the east.This can be seen as part of the Comb-Ceramic culture in Fennoscandinavia. During 3200-2500BC (Corded Ware Culture) a new wave of proto-indoeuropean speaking people inhabitet the coastal parts of the country. The indegious Sami/Lapp population started to refer these new indo-european arrivals as "Finns". This group was followed by Scandinavian raiders starting from Bronze age (1500-500BC) During the Iron age more Scandinvian immigrants arrivived to the Western parts of Finland and this time particularly from Gottland. At first there were distinc genetical and cultural drift among the coastal Finns of Germanic and Baltic origins, however eventually these people had to absord to the Sami/Lapp rule and were forced to adopt Uralic language! This information of the population movements was long based on archelogical evidencies and at the age dna these can proved in genetics as well. It wasn't until the early middleages when the Finns started to push these Lapps, who at the inhabitet pretty much the whole inland parts, up north to their current locations and intermixed with them. However some, even drastic regional differencies regarding to phenotypes remained.

    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=930

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  9. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    He is not, that's why they get bullyed quite a bit in Turkey, or better put that's not us to decide, however this doesn't make him German, there is no need to atomize the prerequesites
    It doesn't matter if he is respected in the country of his ancestry or not. Anglo-Americans and the British have fought each other and still have some distance between them. They are both still of English blood. Blood is blood period.

    You seem to have the mindset that in order to belong to a group of people, you have to be a speaker. For instance, 'Slavic' people are those who speak that language and do not extend to ethnic makeup. This is a common way of thinking in countries such as Russia, where the linguistic part is much more important by custom. I believe, however, that the tradition of the 'Germanics' is through blood as well as language. Tacitus touches on this in his Germania. He was amazed at how the tribes were so ethnically pure. It is the custom of Germanics.

  10. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakkar View Post
    It doesn't matter if he is respected in the country of his ancestry or not. [...] Blood is blood period.
    Of course it does, or do you want to reject current races and just speak of a German, English, etc. race? This would be ridiculous in regard to the people already assimilated in these states, because by that logic, no one could ever assimilate into an ethnic group, but obviously it happened.
    It would be also ridiculous in regard to science.
    If you have two Nordid people, both behave not German, they don't even speak German, they live in Russia now, so now we find out that one is of German ancestry, does this make him German now? Eventhough I can't see any difference to the Russian Nordid guy?

    One can't just run around and make claims, you also have to be accepted, if everyone says you are not English, then you are not English, because it is a question of group consciousness, if you just think so individually then it is of now use.
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

  11. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    Of course it does, or do you want to reject current races and just speak of a German, English, etc. race? This would be ridiculous in regard to the people already assimilated in these states, because by that logic, no one could ever assimilate into an ethnic group, but obviously it happened.
    It would be also ridiculous in regard to science.
    If you have two Nordid people, both behave not German, they don't even speak German, they live in Russia now, so now we find out that one is of German ancestry, does this make him German now? Eventhough I can't see any difference to the Russian Nordid guy?

    One can't just run around and make claims, you also have to be accepted, if everyone says you are not English, then you are not English, because it is a question of group consciousness, if you just think so individually then it is of now use.
    Perhaps I haven't made myself clear. In being Germanic, I was referring to the Germanic countries. You are still Germanic if you move from one Germanic country to the next. If one is from an ethnically and linguistically alien country, like Tunisia, he is not completely Germanic even though he has integrated. This is the Germanic consciousness. However, the consciousness in the Slavic world is mostly by linguistics. The Nordids in the Slavic countries would be considered Slavic from Germany originally. I hope this makes more sense to you. My main point is that in order to be Germanic, it is not solely based on being able to speak the language, but it helps. This is a confusing matter, so I apologize if my argument is ambiguous.

  12. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakkar View Post
    My main point is that in order to be Germanic, it is not solely based on being able to speak the language, but it helps.
    Then I don't understand your response to my fromer post, since I never uttered anything like that. However speaking a Germanic language doesn't just help, it is needed to be Germanic. So if someone is of Germanic blood, then he should better learn a Germanic language to be considered Germanic, and show at least the will to bow to Germanic customs and culture.
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

  13. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakkar View Post
    The Nordids in the Slavic countries would be considered Slavic from Germany originally. I hope this makes more sense to you.
    If they are culturally Russian it is irrelevant whether they have Germanic ancestry or not. They are not Germanic and their ability to assimilate to a Germanic society ('become Germanic') should be judged solely on the basis of their mental and racial features.

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