View Poll Results: Are you pan-Germanic?

Voters
259. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, I support the creation of a pan-Germanic state uniting all Germanic peoples

    65 25.10%
  • Yes, a "federal union" of Germanic states like the EU. Germanics live & work where they like

    54 20.85%
  • Yes, a "federal union" of Germanic states like the EU. Limited inter-migration to keep diversity

    32 12.36%
  • No, independence. Only loose military alliances are OK. Free trade between Germanics is OK

    70 27.03%
  • No, independence. Limited or zero trade & migration between Germanic states.

    12 4.63%
  • Other (please specify).

    26 10.04%
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Thread: Nationalism or Pan-Germanicism? / Inter-Germanic Unity or Inter-Germanic Aparthood?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Sigel's Avatar
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    Nationalism or Pan-Germanicism? / Inter-Germanic Unity or Inter-Germanic Aparthood?

    This is a question that has been on my mind for some time now and I figure Skadites may be equipped to answer. It seems that most people here accept the notion of a ‘Germanic culture’ and perhaps even race. (I don’t wish to debate anthropological and racial science here, so please interpret my statement in the way you consider to be the most correct).

    Our distant ancestors recognized this kinship (see the Anglo-Saxon poem The Wanderer) and linguistic and historical information back this up. I feel at home in any Germanic land and recognize that they all face similar problems of Globalization, Immigration, on a massive scale, and cultural disenfranchisement of their youth. Liberal & Leftist politicians are keen to dispel any notion of a common Germanic history or ethnic unity, as this would jeopardize their Multi-Cultural agenda.

    It seems the only way to oppose this trend is to back the Nationalist parties of each respective country, as they offer viable solutions for limiting and reversing immigration and preserving cultural identity.

    But some nationalist parties have, in my opinion, an unpleasant facet. They draw upon their nation’s ‘glorious’ history to engender a patriotic, chauvinistic and even aggressive attitude towards other nations, often rooted in territorial ambition. Although most pay some lip-service to the concept of ‘white/western’ culture, they make it clear that their citizens are ‘paramount’.

    In states run by such parties outside Germanic ‘foreigners’ may be at best tolerated but could find that some of the more extreme nationalists are even hostile towards them. My feeling is that this style of ‘exclusive’ nationalism inherently contradicts the notion of friendship, cooperation and understanding between Germanic kindred.

    Would others agree?
    A people which takes no pride in the noble achievements of remote ancestors
    will never achieve anything worthy to be remembered with pride by remote descendents.

    Lord Macauley

  2. #2
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    Post Re: Are Pan-Germanism and Nationalism incompatible?

    Its about defining borders then. Each nation should protect their borders, but where are the borders defined? Some Borders are in dispute such as here in Ireland or the Flemmish nationalist situation. How about basque seperatists or Cornish and Scottish nationalists? Are there rights to exist as Nation valid or respected?

    Pan germanism is in fact manifesting itself in the current EU federalism. However the EU is driven along preserving Economic superiority lines rather than preserving race and culture.

    The agression that some nationalist parties and contingents show is akin to imperialism, which is ultimately destructive to nationalism. Imperialism breeds counter imperialist terrorism which destablises national Security.

    A complicated can of worms with a possible happy ending

  3. #3
    Funding Member Zyklop's Avatar
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    Post AW: Re: Are Pan-Germanism and Nationalism incompatible?

    At least in Germany there is no hostility toward immigrants from other Germanic countries.
    Tolerance is a proof of distrust in one's own ideals. Friedrich Nietzsche


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    Post Re: AW: Re: Are Pan-Germanism and Nationalism incompatible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyklop
    At least in Germany there is no hostility toward immigrants from other Germanic countries.
    You do not have a problem with this type of immigration? With the enlargement of the EU you will have many eastern Europeans coming to work in your Country. Do you consider these people Germanic?

  5. #5
    Senior Member Theobald's Avatar
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    Post Re : Re: AW: Re: Are Pan-Germanism and Nationalism incompatible?

    Quote Originally Posted by green nationalist
    You do not have a problem with this type of immigration? With the enlargement of the EU you will have many eastern Europeans coming to work in your Country. Do you consider these people Germanic?
    For Poles, I really doubt (that they consider them Germanic).


    But some nationalist parties have, in my opinion, an unpleasant facet. They draw upon their nation’s ‘glorious’ history to engender a patriotic, chauvinistic and even aggressive attitude towards other nations, often rooted in territorial ambition. Although most pay some lip-service to the concept of ‘white/western’ culture, they make it clear that their citizens are ‘paramount’.
    French nationalism is not against other European countries (except maybe England) : FN and Le Pen have good relationships with almost all other European nationalist parties (Italy, Romania, Serbia, Russia, Germany, Slovakia, Hungary, Flanders, Norway, Danmark, even England, ...) and he created "Euronat" in order to organize a "Nationalist Internationale" like the Communist one. Actually French nationalism doesn't have any territorial claim against other real European Nations (only on Wallonia, but Belgium isn't a Nation), it is for a strong France in a strong Europe.
    Last edited by Theobald; Thursday, March 31st, 2005 at 03:54 PM.
    The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood.

    - Otto Von Bismarck

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    Senior Member Oskorei's Avatar
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    Post Re: AW: Re: Are Pan-Germanism and Nationalism incompatible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyklop
    At least in Germany there is no hostility toward immigrants from other Germanic countries.
    Not in Scandinavia either normally.

    I sometimes get the impression that our rulers (media and politicians) try to create hostility against other Germanic nations though (especially Danes and Americans), for political reasons ("danes hate immigrants", "rednecks are fat, fundamentalist illiterates" and so on), so as to twist the meaning of being Swedish in a very malicious way.

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    Funding Member Zyklop's Avatar
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    Post AW: Re: AW: Re: Are Pan-Germanism and Nationalism incompatible?

    Quote Originally Posted by green nationalist
    With the enlargement of the EU you will have many eastern Europeans coming to work in your Country.Do you consider these people Germanic?
    Did I write anything about Eastern Europe?
    Tolerance is a proof of distrust in one's own ideals. Friedrich Nietzsche


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    Post Re: Re : Re: AW: Re: Are Pan-Germanism and Nationalism incompatible?

    I would always support the idea of an pan-Germanic federation, in which each Germanic nation and language are being treated equal. The E.U is far away of an alternative Germanic federation. I would love to see that the E.U would break down, the sooner the better. Our Germanic federation should include all present Germanic nation and the claimed areas by these nation, such as French-Flanders, Elsass-Lothringen, Sudetenland, Ost-Preussen. Poles and the Czechs are abcolutly no way Germanics, although there are some Germanic blood in them. Poland and Czechia are native Germanic homelands, which belong to the Germanic people, not to the Slavs.

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    Senior Member Theobald's Avatar
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    Post Re : Re: AW: Re: Are Pan-Germanism and Nationalism incompatible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oskorei
    I sometimes get the impression that our rulers (media and politicians) try to create hostility against other Germanic nations though (especially Danes and Americans), for political reasons ("danes hate immigrants", "rednecks are fat, fundamentalist illiterates" and so on), so as to twist the meaning of being Swedish in a very malicious way.
    Indeed, it is the same situation here. It seems that Franco-German friendship is dangerous, so medias and propaganda try to create hostility against Germans (and BTW Alsatians) : "remember the WWII", "they killed many innocent jewish people", "those fucking Boches are our hereditary enemies", ... They did the same about Italians and Spaniards ("robbers", "rapers", ...), Russians (and generally Eastern Europeans : "whores", "communists", ...) and even Belgians and Swiss.
    Actually the Anti-European racism is almost encouraged and normal in France, although politicians like to say that "Europe is a common Nation", ... But if someone says the same about Arabs than it is permitted to say about Germans, it is a drama...


    I would always support the idea of an pan-Germanic federation, in which each Germanic nation and language are being treated equal.
    And do you think it is possible, when one Germanic Nation (in your meaning) has about 95 million inhabitants, and the others 10/15 million or less ?
    The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood.

    - Otto Von Bismarck

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    Post Re: AW: Re: Are Pan-Germanism and Nationalism incompatible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oskorei
    Not in Scandinavia either normally.

    I sometimes get the impression that our rulers (media and politicians) try to create hostility against other Germanic nations though (especially Danes and Americans), for political reasons ("danes hate immigrants", "rednecks are fat, fundamentalist illiterates" and so on), so as to twist the meaning of being Swedish in a very malicious way.
    The same thing happens here. While there's some residual resentment against Germans (among the WWII generation, at least), it's not overwhelming (and I'm quite sure that even most of them respect and admire Germans in their own way). Still, the neocons try to stir up hostility against them for not supporting Israeli efforts at Middle Eastern expansion.

    Likewise with our erstwhile allies the French.
    Last edited by Appalachian; Thursday, March 31st, 2005 at 05:06 PM.

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