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Thread: The "Race does not Exist" Debate

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    Quote Originally Posted by DriftWood View Post
    It's a fallacy to it doesn't exist when we are debating about it's existence.
    pfft, c'mon...clearly is exist in some shperes but not in others...does beauty exist? because people are making billions off it and at the same time i have yet to hear a detailed description....

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    Quote Originally Posted by a.squiggles View Post
    pfft, c'mon...clearly is exist in some shperes but not in others...does beauty exist? because people are making billions off it and at the same time i have yet to hear a detailed description....
    Beauty is abstract. So is Race. Everything we categorize into groups is abstract. So to a degree it can be arbitary.

    On the other hand even children as young as 2 years old can tell the difference between a White Face and a Black Face. Don't buy into the Race doesn't exist, it's simply propaganda to justify the current Multicultural System.

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    Quote Originally Posted by a.squiggles View Post
    my poor bubble!

    Species
    A population or group of populations that are in reproductive contact but are reproductively isolated from all other populations.


    (n) species ((biology) taxonomic group whose members can interbreed)


    of course that doesn't come close to covering all the grey areas (a huge one here is asexual reproduction..your favourite ), but it covers upwards of 99.9% of mammals and is a definition that
    1. can be easily and OBJECTIVELY applied by inspection
    2. leads to a conclusion consistent with the ones reached by other methods in an overwhelming majority of cases where its application is possible.
    3. has been agreed upon internationally


    sure it's a biological term, but it's hardy ever used because it is too ambigious and lacks the kind of precise definition species has. between species genetic differences are undeniable (and the differences have a significant genetic component), between races, well, we'd fist have to define races, and in most cases actual genetic differences would be slight.

    there is just no practical use for that kind of distinction in most cases. and with populations as extensive and biologically diverse as the human one, the logical thing is to group people by allele of interest as the circumstances require. as with sicle cell, in medical terms for all intents and purposes the european carriers are just as "african" as the african ones, their skin colour is not directly relevant to the issue at hand, a useful heuristic, no more.



    how is it evident in other mammals?
    yeah, differences appear in isolated populations of the same species, and eventually they may speciate (although, theoretically, not necessarily), but that is contingent on them staying isolated. clearly that is not what is happening with the human population.

    additionally, in the case of other mammals we can make the subspecies distinction based on geographic location or any disticntive features that have been developped. if we try to apply this to humans we will end up with either no races and just a gradient, or too many races for it to be practical. because of the large size of our gene pool and large amount of phenotypical diversity and interbreeding classifying humans into distinct cohesive subspecies would be impossible. not to mention that it would be highly impractical. what would the point of all that work be?
    Just because I share 99.99% of DNA with a Negro doesn't mean I consider it human. Humans and Chimps share 98% of their DNA? Should we therefore give Chimps human rights?

    Go to Africa and do some voluntaring, or simply go to the inner city. You'll find out just how different some species of man are from another. Golden retrievers and Pit Bulls are still the same "species" but they are hardly the same thing.

    On the surface we have simliarities with other races, we share some humanoid characteristics, but if you look more closely, and compare, there are undeniable differences between the Culture and Civlization that the White man has been able to create and that of Non-Whites. Africa is a perfect example. In the following article an African Admits "Blacks are incapable of civlization" it's enlightening
    http://www.niggermania.org/newforum/...ead.php?t=3017

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    Quote Originally Posted by DriftWood View Post
    Just because I share 99.99% of DNA with a Negro doesn't mean I consider it human. Humans and Chimps share 98% of their DNA? Should we therefore give Chimps human rights?
    um, no...but what does any of it have to do with race? :

    Go to Africa and do some voluntaring, or simply go to the inner city. You'll find out just how different some species of man are from another. Golden retrievers and Pit Bulls are still the same "species" but they are hardly the same thing.
    golden retrievers and pitbulls are a lot more different than humans of different races, and i never denied that there are differences between races just like i am very well aware of the fact that some things are beautiful while others ugly.

    as i understand it, this thread was about race as a scientific, biological category not about whether it exists in everyday life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by a.squiggles View Post
    um, no...but what does any of it have to do with race? :



    golden retrievers and pitbulls are a lot more different than humans of different races, and i never denied that there are differences between races just like i am very well aware of the fact that some things are beautiful while others ugly.

    as i understand it, this thread was about race as a scientific, biological category not about whether it exists in everyday life.
    You sound like a liberal prude, I find your pretentiousness quite amusing, believe me I've dealt with your kind. You will never be convinced that Race---doesn't exist because you have too much of an attachment to the Hippie Ideal that "we all the same on the inside".

    Your too proud to admit your wrong. Even though its obvious. Would you date a Negroe? I doubt it. So don't go claiming that Race doesn't exist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DriftWood View Post
    You sound like a liberal prude, I find your pretentiousness quite amusing, believe me I've dealt with your kind.
    wow, i see you feel like a heart-to-heart...unfortunately i do not feel that would be appropriate, as, unlike youself, i do not jump to conclusions about others but rather consider what i know about them and whether that information is suffient to make such generalizations...the answer is no in your case, and while i could go through your posts and form an opinion, and reply with a similar string of insults, i really don't care to...

    i guess that is why to you there is no question about the existance of race in all spheres of life. you just see a black dude and go barking mad (from your replies to this thread i have no doubt about the truth of this), so automaticaly assume that biology could never be complete without a special category "the people who upset you because of the way they look" eyes:

    You will never be convinced that Race---doesn't exist because you have too much of an attachment to the Hippie Ideal that "we all the same on the inside".
    HA! i'm actually reading a book that has a description that strikes me as excedingly appropriate in your case. in umberto eco's "foucault's pendulum" one of the characters breaks all people down into 5 groups: cretins, fools, morons, and lunatics...with the distinctive feature of morons being that although their reasoning is flawed they at times arrive at the right conclusions...so yes, i could never be convinced that race exists in all spheres of life, becasuse while it's a well-supported social concept, there is not enough scientific evidence distinct racial categories.

    Your too proud to admit your wrong. Even though its obvious. Would you date a Negroe? I doubt it. So don't go claiming that Race doesn't exist
    no idea the reason, but seems like you are too something-or-other (i don't pretend to be intimately familiar with your faults here) to read what you are commenting on. as i have said many times - race does exist in the social sphere, just not in the scientific. in biology differences exist, but these are not conserved accross the races to an extent that would be suffient to identify everyone as belonging to a given race.

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    Quote Originally Posted by a.squiggles View Post
    wow, i see you feel like a heart-to-heart...unfortunately i do not feel that would be appropriate, as, unlike youself, i do not jump to conclusions about others but rather consider what i know about them and whether that information is suffient to make such generalizations...the answer is no in your case, and while i could go through your posts and form an opinion, and reply with a similar string of insults, i really don't care to...

    i guess that is why to you there is no question about the existance of race in all spheres of life. you just see a black dude and go barking mad (from your replies to this thread i have no doubt about the truth of this), so automaticaly assume that biology could never be complete without a special category "the people who upset you because of the way they look" eyes:


    HA! i'm actually reading a book that has a description that strikes me as excedingly appropriate in your case. in umberto eco's "foucault's pendulum" one of the characters breaks all people down into 5 groups: cretins, fools, morons, and lunatics...with the distinctive feature of morons being that although their reasoning is flawed they at times arrive at the right conclusions...so yes, i could never be convinced that race exists in all spheres of life, becasuse while it's a well-supported social concept, there is not enough scientific evidence distinct racial categories.



    no idea the reason, but seems like you are too something-or-other (i don't pretend to be intimately familiar with your faults here) to read what you are commenting on. as i have said many times - race does exist in the social sphere, just not in the scientific. in biology differences exist, but these are not conserved accross the races to an extent that would be suffient to identify everyone as belonging to a given race.
    I looked at your profile and it says East Baltid. LOL

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    In actuality geneticists have discovered that human races are more distant and different from each other than previously though. At first, scientists thought that humans share 99.99% of their DNA with each other, but new studies have revealed that humans share 99% of DNA, with some scientists going as low as 98%. This 1% difference in genetic coding is enough to make a person resistant/susceptible to disease, having a higher/lower IQ, and/or having fine to wooly hair. Plus, a good majority of geneticists declare that race DOES exist and denying that it does is to deny biological evolution.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/11/us/11dna.html?_r=4
    &hp=&oref=slogin&pagewanted=all&oref=slo gin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

    The DNA Age
    In DNA Era, New Worries About Prejudice
    Sign In to E-Mail or Save This Print Reprints Share
    Del.icio.usDiggFacebookNewsvinePermalink

    By AMY HARMON
    Published: November 11, 2007
    Correction Appended

    When scientists first decoded the human genome in 2000, they were quick to portray it as proof of humankind’s remarkable similarity. The DNA of any two people, they emphasized, is at least 99 percent identical.

    Minute Genetic Differences Can Mean a Lot But new research is exploring the remaining fraction to explain differences between people of different continental origins.

    Scientists, for instance, have recently identified small changes in DNA that account for the pale skin of Europeans, the tendency of Asians to sweat less and West Africans’ resistance to certain diseases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DriftWood View Post
    I looked at your profile and it says East Baltid. LOL
    i don't get the joke...care to explain?
    btw, i'm also caucasian

    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosLord View Post
    In actuality geneticists have discovered that human races are more distant and different from each other than previously though. At first, scientists thought that humans share 99.99% of their DNA with each other, but new studies have revealed that humans share 99% of DNA, with some scientists going as low as 98%.
    ...and at times differences on this orer are found among people of the same race

    This 1% difference in genetic coding is enough to make a person resistant/susceptible to disease, having a higher/lower IQ, and/or having fine to wooly hair.
    also them having blue or brown eyes, being tall or short, havign huntingtons, etc. etc....most of this accoutn sfor individual, not group, variations

    Plus, a good majority of geneticists declare that race DOES exist and denying that it does is to deny biological evolution.
    really?...first time i hear that...from what i've read on the subject most skirt the issue or acknowledge differences while saying that no definitive races can be defined based on genetics...i don't know if that article you've cited supports you position, and don't know it's sources, as i don't have access to it...

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    A comprehensive summary about the viability and use of the biological concept "race" applied to humans:

    John Goodrum's "The Race FAQ" - http://www.goodrumj.com/RFaqHTML.html

    Do biological races exist within the human species? If scientific terms are to be used consistently, this question can only be answered in the broader context of non-human taxonomy. The intent of this paper is to investigate what constitutes a race (or subspecies) in other species, and to answer some questions concerning whether the traditional human races might qualify...

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