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Thread: North-South Divide in England; Danelaw vs Anglo-Saxons?

  1. #41
    Senior Member flâneur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyBatty View Post
    Tommy, how would you define superiority?
    Northern hemisphere = superior.

    Southern hemishpere apart from Australia/NZ = Inferior.
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    Senior Member flâneur's Avatar
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    I have also read that there is not only a north south divide in Germany but also an east west,as the people living in what was east Germany regarded as backward and lazy....and not only that i have read about Prussians regarding western Germans as "Those black haired bastards from the west of Berlin".

    Not to mention Yankees regarding southern Americans as backwoods redneck yokels......it all gets a bit confusing.

    What is consistent though is the language difference.
    In the north of England they speak a harsh dialect of English where in the south we speak a lazy version of English.
    Same goes for France,Germany,Italy and even the US...i say the US but have never been there so im going on what ive seen on "The dukes of hazard " here,with Bo and Luke cockin a snoop at the laaawman

  3. #43
    Senior Member Schattenjäger's Avatar
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    Fascinating. I never suspected that in England such archaic remains of old conquerors are still alive!

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    http://www.viking.no/e/england/e-yorkshire_norse.htm
    I found this link quite interesting, allot of the words even I use are closely derived from old norse. As well as places near me like Whitby, York, Kirby moorside, Selby.

  5. #45
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    600 places ending in by? there's more than that in the parish I was born in. Crosby, Easby, Wetherby, Corby, Newby and on and on. In fact they found a Viking burial ground near Wetheral. The best in the land I believe. Not much written about it though. In the Blood Of The Vikings series Cumbrians in Penrith had the clearest Y chromosome links to modern Norwegians which is hardly shocking considering the heavy Norwegian settlement there. There are thousands of places in the Cumbrian highlands showing the Norse roots of the place. There are British roots too however, stronger than in the neighbouring counties. There is the Gosforth Cross and Bewcastle crosses which are among the finest examples of England's Germanic heritage anywhere. Even the Cathedral at Carlisle has a runic inscription carved into the sandstone. I recommend a book "Thorstein Of the Mere" if you can get it. About Thurstan Water in the Lakes and a young Viking settler. The dialect too is unintelligible to outsiders especially from the south.

    The North - South divide betrays an astonishing cultural and ethnic gap. I found this out working amongst English southerners in Germany who had the attitude that I just didn't deserve to be there teaching English and looked upon me as some sort of fecking barbarian. The phonetic standard English alphabet just didn't apply to me. Yet I probably had a greater command of English than they did. There just isn't many lads or lasses from my region who end up in places like that doing what I was doing. A lot of the office staff at the school were studenty, homosexual and home counties middle class types like so not into old values yahhh??? so I used to work them by coming in and going. "Hu ya gannin wha fettle?" needless to say I didn't really fit in with these arseholes and later on when I worked in Devon briefly I was often asked if I was Ukranian or Polish by the English staff for f##k's sake.

    You can't make sweeping generalisations of course but traditionally we've had the shitty end of the stick and the levels of geographical and general ignorance concerning the north amongst average southerners is astonishing. They're more likely to have been to Paris or Athens than Carlisle or Newcastle. I wouldn't even regard Manchester as North. Unbelievable and tragic.

    We are a closer bunch, more family oriented, less open to fads and fashions and more 'earthy' so to speak. My best mates are Danish and there's not much difference between us. When I say Ahm gaan yam they knew what I meant. Maybe we are Danes. Whatever it is it's both fascinating and appalling at the same time.

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    Senior Member Berrocscir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyAtkins View Post
    Northern hemisphere = superior.

    Southern hemishpere apart from Australia/NZ = Inferior.
    Bit disrespectful to the Boers is it not?

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    There is an interesting disparity between the perceived "community mindedness" of the two areas which seems to correspond with how they each responded to Christianisation. Traditionally in Germanic communities the social order is built on implicit personal loyalties which ensure fairness between members, oftentimes by way of just revenge. The bonds of kinship demanded monetary or, failing that, blood compensation be extracted should one's family blood be spilt. Homicide was always regarded as a matter for the dead man's family members to deal with; indeed, according to Anglo-Saxon law it was their duty to obtain a "wergild" ("man-price") so as not to run contrary to the social order, regardless of personal feeling. Such was the cohesiveness of the family unit in the traditional Germanic society that the slayer's family members were deemed liable for his crime by extension unless they renounced him (and thereby their right to claim his wergild). The wronged warrior seeking vengeance is a common theme in Germanic literature. The sentiment seems to be the basis of enshrined notions of social justice which have come to characterise the Germanic peoples, and which, after Christian tinkering, have been turned inside out to apply equally to all the world's riff raff instead of one's immediate kin and community.

    The negotiating of the wergild in Christianised Anglo-Saxon England was assumed by the Church and thereby God Himself (lest the people hold to their pre-Christian ideas of personal responsibility to one's soil and people). The Church's constant gobbling up of the social roles traditionally accorded to the people helped establish the hierarchical, "entrust it to authority" attitude that underlies the Anglosphere class system today.

    In the Danelaw area, where Christianity met with Viking-spirited resistance and was staved off for longer, the just feuds and 'wildness' continued long after the rest of the country had been more or less tamed. To the Scandinavian mind, honour mattered, and a blood vendetta was always more honourable than compensation divvied out by an authority. The conversion of Danish leaders like Guthrum (Æthelstan) were largely political concessions, and indeed Christian ideas did not fully filter down to the people of the north as they did those of the south, which is attested by the persistence of many pagan traditions in the former after Christianisation. This probably contributed to their keeping the Germanic mindset and traditions for longer, which would have been compounded by England's being cut off from the Scandinavian world after 1066. The way of life in the north, therefore, being relatively removed from urban/administrative regions of the south and the Nordic sphere of influence (discounting the Frenchified invaders' provenance ) would have preserved Germanic ways in many respects for longer there than in other regions of England. So today, the traditional north is very probably the more loyal to Germanic modes of being -- which are, of course, more 'backward' and 'unpolished' in the Christianity-moulded worldview.

    (Of course, a more outlandish view could posit the proximity of England's rugged northern neighbour as an influence on its northern ways. But we like to take the credit for everything. )

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    Quote Originally Posted by King Sitric View Post
    There is a bit of a joke in Britain/England about 'northern' folk been a bit thick. How do English folk here feel about this?
    i agree with jonjon, we do have poorer education levels than the south (which is why many southerners think of us as stupid and thick - notice the way RB called us "thick as planks") but is that necessary a bad thing? Education today has become a way to shove leftist and zionist ideas down kids throats whilst they still dont have the critical thinkin skills to question what theyre bein tought.

    However there are also stupid southerners and smart northerners

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    Senior Member Wulfsige's Avatar
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    This north-south divide rubbish stems from ignorant people from both regions who have never ventured out of there locality. As a wiltshire man and worked pretty much worked all over the country have never considered northerners thick , stupid or otherwise. Generally the biggest differences are the north is more industrialised and harsher winters. You could say the south is also divided, the south east heavily populated and more money generally where as the west is a lot more rural. To say we are all southern softies is a bit ignorant too, spend a few nights on salisbury plain or dartmoor, Quantocks etc, where people work and live all year, mite surprise a few northerners. Anything above the M4 is north to me

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    New Member Aetheldred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by angriper View Post
    In the Wessex area they still rave about how Aelfred fought the 'evil' Vikings and founded England. I still feel there is a different mentality south of the Danelaw region in England to land within in it. Winchester is one place where it can be seen clearly, they have a massive stature of Aelfred with a sword in the main street. Wessex people seem more arrogant, selfish, far removed from scandinavian attitudes and many weathly people own holiday homes in southern France, which they percieve as the height of culture and romance. They drink a lot of wine and never beer, eat soft cheeses, wear as least clothes as possible no matter how fat they are and aspire to finding french partners. Its almost like they try and make themselves french rather that North European.
    No! You are very wrong! We are not arrogant and selfish, we don't drink wine and eat soft cheeses! Where on earth did you learn such things! That's quite ridiculous! French? We hate the frogs! We fought them several times! Don't be so ignorant!

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