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Thread: Communism: How Persistent Can a Failed Ideology Be?

  1. #41
    Senior Member skyhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhydderch View Post
    I'm well aware that socialism is appealing (in theory) to many people in Western and other nations. But if they like the way Communist countries have actually turned out then they're either ignorant or mad. Wanting one's country to develop into a socialist one is not the same as welcoming say, Chinese Communist invaders. We know that these already Communist countries have been treating their people like scum, and most socialists wouldn't actually want that.

    It depends on which socialist set up you are judging the social experience on.

    Way earlier in this thread I said that the collapse of the USSR was a good thing for the promotion of socialism .


    I have always seen the USSR example as an example of State Capitalism not State Socialism. For State Socialism I prefer to look at the examples set by Cuba and more recently Venezeula , Equador , Bolivia , and to a lesser extent maybe Brazil , Argentina etc etc.

    Cuba attained Socialism via revolution much like the soviets but because they had very sincere revolutionary leaders their example is more a development of a working socialist system since the revolution , as opposed to a State Capitalist system developed by Stalin.

    Cubans ,since the revolution, have voted in many constitutional changes brought about by the needs of development to a new socialist society , a totally virgin territory reorganization , 95% of Cubans now vote in their local elections . You would be hard pushed to such voting figures in any society worldwide.

    Same in socialist inclined Venezeula, although their government was democratically elected into office after a revolution had began to become a reality there too. ( 1989) The people of Venezeula have held national referendums 33 times since Chavez' government were voted in. Once again , you would be hard pushed to find any government worldwide who has given so much input to national organization to its own people.

    If we look back on the developmental history of western capitalist society we see much the same thing as we saw in " socialist " Russia or China.

    Brutal State repression of their own people.

    It's a very unnatural way to organise society and it's highly detrimental to the well-being of a society.
    We can agree to disagree then

    But now I'm talking about their experience of Communism.

    Their experience for maybe 10 years in some places had been better than their experience of capitalist rule for as long as they could remember.

    Who's to say whether they would have necessarily followed the same path as the soviets or China. The Vietnamese communists were fiercely nationalist. When the nationalist element is focused on socialism that , imo , is when a more developed form of socialism takes place like in Cuba and Venezeula.
    By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeternitas View Post
    Read more here.

    This article pertains to the Swedish situation - see also the article Young Swedes lack knowledge about communism - but it would be interesting to discuss the status and view on communism and communist crimes in other countries as well. Are people familiar with/informed of the historical record and consequences of communist regimes?
    Communist crimes in East Germany as you are aware aren't overlooked. The emphasis however lays on Third Reich crimes. In addition, some people especially West Germans, are completely IGNORANT of anything related to East Germany or have a History Channel/Hollywood view about it. Little do they know that it was East Germany who initially wanted unity between Germany's under socialism but the West didn't want a strong SED party in its ranks so they rejected it.

    And lastly, is communism in your opinion a failed ideology?
    It depends how you apply it and from what angles you judge it. A socialist regime gives people no worry of being sacked from their jobs. Under socialism, you can't criticise your leaders, but you can criticise your employer without getting the boot. Under capitalism, it's viceversa. Make a wild guess which I prefer.

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    The horrors of communism? Communism is an ideology. Communism is a branch of the broader socialist movement which advocates the establishment of a classless society based on common ownership of the means of production. You can blame for example Islam for the crimes against non-believers because the Koran advocates jihad. But communism doesn't advocate any genocide or extermination or ethnic cleansing. People like Stalin who committed horrible crimes in the name of communism should be blamed. I despise Stalin. But not all communist states conducted this ethnic cleansing. There was no ethnic cleansing in the DDR. The problem about communism is that it's often used as a pejorative word. According to F. Engels, "socialism" was "respectable" on the continent of Europe, while "communism" was the opposite.

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    Communism is an un-Germanic ideology. I believe Germanics should learn about the mistakes and crimes of communism. I believe that is very important because we must learn from history. Hopefully communism is an ideology that will not reign in Germanic countries ever again.


    Die Sonne scheint noch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagna View Post
    Communism is an un-Germanic ideology. I believe Germanics should learn about the mistakes and crimes of communism. I believe that is very important because we must learn from history. Hopefully communism is an ideology that will not reign in Germanic countries ever again.
    Dagna , everything you disagree with is deemed " un-Germanic "

    Also we are all very familiar with the crimes of Communist dictatorships but hopelessly unfamiliar with the crimes of our own capitalist leaders.

    There are none so hopelessly enslaved as those that falsely believe themselves to be free.

    Did you know a million Iraqis died because of the Western sanctions imposed on them between gulf wars one and two ? 500.000 of them were children.

    Did you know more than a million people died in Indonesia under Sukarno the Western sponsored and armed despot ?

    Who is the only nation ever to use nuclear weapons ?

    If you want to learn from history don't just look at the crimes of the official enemies , look at your own actions too.
    By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.

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    All these arguments about "ungermanic" are turning ridiculous. Did you know our Germanic ancestors killed and dumped homosexuals in swamps? That our Germanic ancestors also raided and plundered other lands? Is that the kind of "Germanic" behavior we should adopt today, just for the sake of being übergermanic? eyes: Ideologies can become "Germanic", if Germanics use them for their benefits. F. Engels was a German and he contributed to the ideas of communism. National communism in Germany was "Germanic". Would you call our German potato salad or currywurst "ungermanic" because we use the terribly "ungermanic" potatoes and curry?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    All these arguments about "ungermanic" are turning ridiculous. [...] Ideologies can become "Germanic", if Germanics use them for their benefits. F. Engels was a German and he contributed to the ideas of communism. National communism in Germany was "Germanic".
    If "ungermanic" arguments are turning ridiculous, so are "Germanic" arguments. In what sense would you say that communism - or other forms of radical leftism - has benefited Germanic group interests?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vingolf View Post
    If "ungermanic" arguments are turning ridiculous, so are "Germanic" arguments. In what sense would you say that communism - or other forms of radical leftism - has benefited Germanic group interests?
    I already explained it lengthily in the GDR vs. FRG thread. National communism in East Germany was nationalistic and it preserved the German ethnicity. The German ethnicity is my no.1 concern, not "democracy", freedom and the like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagna View Post
    Communism is an un-Germanic ideology. I believe Germanics should learn about the mistakes and crimes of communism. I believe that is very important because we must learn from history. Hopefully communism is an ideology that will not reign in Germanic countries ever again.
    ...not reign in Germanic countries again? In fact the basic principles were merged with liberalism and are realized in today's politics. I just remind you of the ongoing destruction of native Europeans, European homelands, multiculturalism as only legal ideology, globalization etc.pp.

    I remember now - I wanted to post that in the "socialism vs capitalism" thread - capitalism is no ideology that opposes socialism/communism, capitalism is no ideology at all, as soon as you pick up rocks somewhere to build a hut you are using rock as capital. Marx and others invented the term capitalism in order to have an ideology that stands in opposition to socialism and can be blamed for all social troubles. Fact is, all communist/socialist states have/had a state-organized economy (state-capitalism) that strangulated private enerprises, leading to a vast economic ruin.
    Here in the so-called West we have private enterprises working together with a clique of globalist politicans that sell us their despotism as democracy.
    When men cease to fight — they cease to be — Men.
    “Critics are like eunuchs in a harem; they know how it's done, they've seen it done every day, but they're unable to do it themselves.” Brendan Behan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    I already explained it lengthily in the GDR vs. FRG thread. National communism in East Germany was nationalistic and it preserved the German ethnicity.
    I have my doubts about that DDR train of thought, but the issue here is Germanic (meta-ethnic) groups interests on a global scale. In what sense would you say that communism - or other forms of radical leftism - has served Germanic group interests?

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