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Thread: West/East Finland split

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    West/East Finland split

    An old but nevertheless interesting article regarding to whole northern Europe.

    Regional differences among the Finns: A Y-chromosomal perspective.

    Lappalainen T, Koivumaki S, Salmela E, Huoponen K, Sistonen P, Savontaus ML, Lahermo P.

    Twenty-two Y-chromosomal markers, consisting of fourteen biallelic markers (YAP/DYS287, M170, M253, P37, M223, 12f2, M9, P43, Tat, 92R7, P36, SRY-1532, M17, P25) and eight STRs (DYS19, DYS385a/b, DYS388, DYS389I/II, DYS390, DYS391, DYS392, DYS393), were analyzed in 536 unrelated Finnish males from eastern and western subpopulations of Finland. The aim of the study was to analyze regional differences in genetic variation within the country, and to analyze the population history of the Finns. Our results gave further support to the existence of a sharp genetic border between eastern and western Finns so far observed exclusively in Y-chromosomal variation. Both biallelic haplogroup and STR haplotype networks showed bifurcated structures, and similar clustering was evident in haplogroup and haplotype frequencies and genetic distances.These results suggest that the western and eastern parts of the country have been subject to partly different population histories, which is also supported by earlier archaeological, historical and genetic data. It seems probable that early migrations from Finno-Ugric sources affected the whole country, whereas subsequent migrations from Scandinavia had an impact mainly on the western parts of the country. The contacts between Finland and neighboring Finno-Ugric, Scandinavian and Baltic regions are evident. However, there is no support for recent migrations from Siberia and Central Europe. Our results emphasize the importance of incorporating Y-chromosomal data to reveal the population substructure which is often left undetected in mitochondrial DNA variation. Early assumptions of the homogeneity of the isolated Finnish population have now proven to be false, which may also have implications for future association studies.



    Comment from Dienekes blog

    "An interesting comprehensive new article on Finnish Y-chromosome variation. The main finding is that the arrival of Finno-Ugric speakers (possessing haplogroup N3) was later followed by Scandinavian migrations mainly into western Finland, which reduced the frequency of N3 there, bringing especially haplogroup I1a. Thus, within Finland, western Finns are close to Swedes, and eastern Finns are close to their Finno-Ugric brethren. Interestingly, Finns seem to lack haplogroup R1b which is found among Germanic-speaking Scandinavians. Thus, the most probable sequence of events is the following:

    1. Movement of N3 into Finland
    2. Movement of I1a into western Finland
    3. Movement of R1b into Germanic Scandinavia

    This seems to support a picture in which early Germanics had a high frequency of I1a, early Finns had a high frequency of N3, and R1b in Scandinavia is the result of foreign settlers, probably continental Germans, Britons etc."

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    Do you consider Balts as Germanics (on this context)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lissu View Post
    Do you consider Balts as Germanics (on this context)?

    Why, what do you mean, elaborate please? I consider this thread to be relevant to Germanic people, well atleast etnogenesis wise.

    "It seems probable that early migrations from Finno-Ugric sources affected the whole country, whereas subsequent migrations from Scandinavia had an impact mainly on the western parts of the country".

    The Corded Ware culture (3200-2500BC) with its proto-baltic speaking population is wholly different story and part of whole different population movement in a wholly diffferent time frame.

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    http://www.mankindquarterly.org/samp...ccorrected.pdf


    "Whether the genetic ancestors of the Finns arrived in
    Finland 5,000 or 10,000 years ago, the divergence of the Baltic-
    Finns into different ethnic groups either started or accelerated
    during the Bronze Age (1500-500 BC)
    .The Scandinavian
    Bronze culture arrived in the southern and western coastal
    regions of Finland with Scandinavian immigrants, who had a
    lasting effect on Finnish gene pools and language. The Finns
    became genetically similar to the Scandinavians and received
    Proto-Germanic loan words. These early Scandinavian
    immigrants were linguistically and genetically assimilated into
    the indigenous population".


    The first quote implies how, thanks to spread of Scandinavian Bronze age, etnic Finns became genetically closer to Swedes than to their fellow fenno-ugric brethren Estonians.

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    Western Finns are 4cm taller than eastern Finns on the average.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pertinax View Post
    Western Finns are 4cm taller than eastern Finns on the average.
    Antropological literature (Coon, Gunther..etc) have always pointed the phenotypical differencies of Southern/Western Finns as opposed to the Eastern and Northern ones. The East is simply more influenced of the Uralic speaking tribes related to Comb-Ceramic culture(Coon used the finnic term "Kammkeramik") They were the first inhabitants of Fennoscandinavia. This group was later followed by the already mentioned, proto-baltic speaking Corded's (Corded Ware culture 3200-2500BC) and later Scandinavians (Scandinavian Bronze age 1500-500BC) which brought the I1a haplotype and had strong influence on the genetic composure of comtemporary etnic-Finns, well Western Finns as the above quated study mentions. It amazes how these people were later "finnicized" and adopted the Uralic language of the early fenno-ugrian types, though.

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    I1a is associated with the Northern Megalithic Culture, while R1a is with the Corded Ware Culture.

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