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Thread: On Morality and Fear

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    On Morality and Fear

    Friedrich Nietzsche once said that "Fear is the Mother of all Morality." How much truth is there to that statement? Looking at some of the ideas where I can draw a sense of morality from today, I think was he correct in a few ways.

    Followers in the Abrahamic religions-I'm not familar with Buddhism, Hinduism, ect-want avoid sin or immoral deeds because they fear God will comden them to Hell. Today's more secular society practices moral ideas like 'tolerance' and 'diversity' because Westerners believe that racism, ethnocentrism, sexism, ect. will lead to horrible things like slavery, oppression or the Holocaust, and because Whites fear rioting from Blacks.

    What are your thoughts on morality?

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    I think that makes sense. People usually will not refrain from behavior if they think it will advantage them without negative consequences. Even without religion that is generally the case, the fear of state sanctions (jail, fines, etc) or sanctions from society (loss of friends, bad reputation, etc)

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    This is a very utilitarian approach in my mind - tantamount to saying that it is out of genuine rational self-interest that individuals refrain from harming each other and adhere to moral codes (indeed, leading to a nearly deontological variant of rule utilitarianism.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Graopo View Post

    Followers in the Abrahamic religions-I'm not familar with Buddhism, Hinduism, ect-want avoid sin or immoral deeds because they fear God will comden them to Hell. Today's more secular society practices moral ideas like 'tolerance' and 'diversity' because Westerners believe that racism, ethnocentrism, sexism, ect. will lead to horrible things like slavery, oppression or the Holocaust, and because Whites fear rioting from Blacks.

    The west has a problem. We have no longer an elite, but an anti-elite. Let’s start from the beginning. And everything begins with Plato’s question “Who should rule?”

    And the principle is qualitative. It’s the better ones to rule, not the few. And the better are the ones who give up of their interests, serving the public after a long and virtuous education. An education with the single purpose to deal with the city as a collective reality, not as a way to gather wealth and fame.

    In western societies for that purpose we have the rule of law, a constitution, and the natural shifting in public offices.

    But our elites are no longer serving only our interests. The multiculturalism has subverted the natural order. The tolerance to others expressed under our christian heritage was converted in obedience and absolute deference before the ethnic groups.

    We have a moral built under constitutions that face substantives morals as equal. But the moral of an islamic extremist it’s not equal to mine or yours. Our civilization has a moral that refuses the emotional sensationalism of the substantive moral. That moral needs a common ground sympathetic to a minimal rules and absolute values that never should be stepped. And this values and rules have to be esteemed and followed by everyone. I mean everyone.

    If a ethnic group do not embrace our values then we should send them back to their homelands.

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    Catholic doctrine as regards morality is based on moral virtue according to natural law, not fear of divine retribution. After all, in Catholic doctrine a person can be perfectly moral in his life but still suffer condemnation if not part of the Church. EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS.

    Whether the uninstructed Faithful think they must be moral to attain salvation is another question altogether. As far as certain clergy applying the same notion, it would be an adeguate means to disuade the Faithful from sinning (the unfaithful just wouldn't care anyways).

    Few Catholics know what proper Catholic doctrine states, non-Catholics generally just attack something based on notions they misunderstood or misconstrued.

    Obviously, I do not speak nor do I care about the doctrines of the multitude of Protestant denominations in the field. They're too many to keep track of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ederico View Post
    Catholic doctrine as regards morality is based on moral virtue according to natural law, not fear of divine retribution.
    This is one of the reasons I like the Catholic doctrine, being a natural-law deontological ethicist myself.

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    Anxiety is fear, and there can't really be self-improvement without anxiety, even if its very mild. So in that sense fear is a good thing in my view.

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    I think maybe Nietzsche said that because the prey are full of fear and in their impotence to fight back come up with ideas to make everyone equal or at least things good and evil. And it is those who go beyond good and evil who create whatever suits them no matter what anyone or any morality thinks.

    -Lyfing

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