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Thread: Why Libertarians Are a Joke

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    Post Why Libertarians Are a Joke

    http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/...thylibtjoke.htm

    Why Libertarians Are a Joke

    by Joe McCarthy

    24 March 2004

    What I'm about to say I say with some reluctance. I consider myself to be a Libertarian, of sorts. I appreciate Libertarian ideas of individual liberty, respect for property rights, opposition to environmentalist crackpots, anti-socialism, limited government, etc. I have several disagreements with Libertarians -- notably on abortion, and trade policy. But the issue that convinces me of the patent lunacy of Libertarians is found in the Libertarian Party plank on immigration. Here is the pertinent excerpt:

    http://www.lp.org/issues/platform/immigrat.html

    "Undocumented non-citizens should not be denied the fundamental freedom to labor and to move about unmolested. Furthermore, immigration must not be restricted for reasons of race, religion, political creed, age, or sexual preference.

    We therefore call for the elimination of all restrictions on immigration, the abolition of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the Border Patrol, and a declaration of full amnesty for all people who have entered the country illegally. We oppose government welfare and resettlement payments to non-citizens just as we oppose government welfare payments to all other persons."

    I hope I don't have to point how nutty it is to call for getting rid of the Border Patrol and abolishing the border! It should be taken for granted how nutty it is. If we abolished the border, America would end. Those "huddled masses" that we read about on the plaque of the Statue of Liberty would pour in by the millions. Anyone who could scrape together the funds would be here on the first boat. Let's be serious -- this is lunacy! With zero border controls, coupled with our infinitely higher living standards, I don't think that it would be alarmist to say that we could expect HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of third world immigrants on our doorstep within a few months! Can you imagine the strain on our social services, infrastructure, and schools? Not to mention the anarchy that would ensue as a result of so many people coming in so fast? WOW! Obviously the idea of abolishing the border is a silly idea. Anyone suggesting it should probably be under the care of a psychiatrist.

    As if the above problems with open borders aren't bad enough, we have the issue of terrorists entering our nation, which has been in focus since 9/11. Unshaken, the Libertarians continue to push for their open borders nonsense!

    Another pertinent point was raised by Pat Buchanan in his syndicated column sometime back. Libertarianism, despite its anti-statist ideology, leads to statism. Their advocacy of loose immigration will lead to a swarm of third world immigrants who inevitably vote for Democrats in overwhelming numbers. Of course, it is only natural that immigrants (and non-Whites generally) would vote for the party that promises them the most lucre out of Whitey's pocket. Immigrants, on average are on welfare at a much higher rate than natives, and Democrats excel at giving them other people's money. The idea that Mexican immigrants, for example, would support privatizing Social Security, or support Lockean ideas on property, or other Libertarianesque ideas developed by 'dead white male racists' is absurd. Individual liberty is a concept virtually unknown to the third world. It is not organic to their culture or history. Therefore, Libertarianism, despite its avowed anti-statism, would lead to statism on a massive scale. (It already has to a degree. Most of us probably remember the Clinton scheme to short circuit the naturalization process of making citizens out of immigrants in time for them to vote Democrat in 1996. Sure enough, Libertarian 'think tanks' like the Cato Institute have been on the front lines pushing hard for loose border controls.)

    One thing that I find amusing about the Libertarian Party, is its utter cluelessness on matters relating to race and culture. The fact that liberty oriented, anti-statist ideas originated with White people, and is consequently more likely to be implemented by Whites, seems to allude them. Nor does it seem to dawn on them that the vast majority of their party faithful are White. Do you see Mexican immigrants rushing to join the LP? Of course not! Is there any reason to believe that Mexicans, who come from a country rooted in socialism, statism, and collectivism will EVER support the LP? Of course not!

    So you see, at bottom, what clinches my argument that Libertarians are a joke, is that they support a policy -- mass immigration -- which will destroy any chance of their good ideas ever being implemented. Every time another immigrant enters this country, the ideas of property rights, constitutional government, and individual liberty go just that much farther down the drain.

    In conclusion, I'll leave any halfway sane Libertarians who may be reading this with a parting message:

    WAKE UP YOU NITWITS!

    JOE McCARTHY

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    Post Re: Why Libertarians Are a Joke

    I only ask for some consistency.
    If you are a Libertarian, then follow the logic of your position - do not attempt to make illogical exceptions.
    Libertarians are in essnce not opposed to the free flow of peoples because they believe in freedom out of principle.
    They opine that everyone should be free to live wherever they want!

    They become nimby [not in my back yard] when the freedoms of others start to affect their own - too bad; you made your bed, now 'lie' in it.

    I am opposed to ALL forms of liberalism [or libertinism, or libertarianism etc., etc.,]. I am at least consistent in that.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Mad Re: Why Libertarians Are a Joke

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    I only ask for some consistency.
    If you are a Libertarian,
    Moody, you're such an idiot because not once have I EVER claimed to be a Libetarian. Indeed I am NOT a Libetarian. So this nonsense you keep throwing about me being inconsistant on your part is approaching the ridiculious, and had no basis in truth or even in reality. I sincerly suggest you give up your fetish about me!

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    Post Re: Why Libertarians Are a Joke

    Quote Originally Posted by Pushkin
    Moody, you're such an idiot ...
    Do we need these insults?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pushkin
    because not once have I EVER claimed to be a Libetarian.
    But I am. More when it comes to civil and political liberties then when it comes to economics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    Libertarians are in essnce not opposed to the free flow of peoples because they believe in freedom out of principle.
    Well, I am opposed to the free flow of peoples (or rather races), because I'm neither an egalitarian nor an utopist. And neither was Jefferson.

    Only the European (and in a more narrow sense Northern European-Germanic) genetic pool permits societies where individual liberty is valued, and freedom and privacy is respected. Freedom consciousness, like concern for ecology and animals, is collectively seen very much a (Northern) European trait.

    To simplify the essence: I doubt that libertarian values would be reflected to any significant extent without Europeans. Consequently, measures that lead to the destruction or irreversible alteration of the European genetic pool (in a dysgenic sense; more intelligent, more educated people are typically more freedom-conscious), are anti-libertarian at last. Whoever values liberty, has to prevent them.

    As I said, I don't push my libertarianism to abstract extremes, just in order to make its opponents happy.
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    Mad Re: Why Libertarians Are a Joke

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorburn
    Do we need these insults?
    Untill the day Moody gives up his obsession of trying to knee-jerk at every point, yes! I'm about ready just to put his ass on ignore, since I have yet to read one intelligent post of his!

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    Post Re: Why Libertarians Are a Joke

    Quote Originally Posted by Pushkin
    Untill the day Moody gives up his obsession of trying to knee-jerk at every point, yes! I'm about ready just to put his ass on ignore, since I have yet to read one intelligent post of his!
    Ah, another anti-Moodyist. You can form a tag team with Jack.
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    Post Re: Why Libertarians Are a Joke

    As far as I was concerned, Pushkin had posted a piece not by himself, but by someone called Joe McCarthy. The piece was posted verbatim without comment, so one cannot tell [or care] whether the poster [Pushkin] agreed with it or not.
    Obviously I only responded to the piece which was posted.

    I attacked the liberatrian position in terms of ideas - there was no personal insult involved. Pushkin's theatrical rage at 'Moody' is similar [as Tryggvi points out] to that of Jack's towards the same in times past.

    You don't have to be a psychologist to understand why that rage is directed at the Lawless one ... it is envy, pure and simple.
    I am not modest enough to refrain from pointing this out.
    I have had to censure much foul abuse from Pushkin's posts just as the previous Mod on this forum had to do the same from Jack's posts to Mr. Moody [believe me, the pre-censored posts came through on my e mail, and they were vile].
    I am going public on this in an attempt to stem the flow of green bile.

    Going back to the topic, I believe that liberatrianism has an especial problem. By its own logic, it cannot be 'partial'; if it attempts to present a 'limited' form of libertarianism, then it fails in its quest at liberty.
    Ultimately, libertarianism must be a universal creed to be worthy of the name.

    For me, a philosophic outlook comes down to what is of ultimate concern.
    For a libertarian, liberty [freedom] should be ultimate.
    If that isn't the case [i.e., freedom is limited], then something ELSE is of ultimate concern.
    It could be Race.
    Someone who believes in libertarian values for his race ONLY is only a secondary and half-baked libertarian. First and foremost he registers a commitment to his race, in which case he is the opposite to a full-blown libertarian - he is a Racialist.
    No REAL libertarian will include racialists in his team.

    This is why I place emphasis on consistency in philosophy, and use the criterion of ultimate concern in such matters.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Post Re: Why Libertarians Are a Joke

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    As far as I was concerned, Pushkin had posted a piece not by himself, but by someone called Joe McCarthy. The piece was posted verbatim without comment, so one cannot tell [or care] whether the poster [Pushkin] agreed with it or not.
    If I did agreed with it, you would know I'm not a libetarian.
    Last edited by Moody; Thursday, April 1st, 2004 at 04:14 PM. Reason: removed uncivil elements of post

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    Post Re: Why Libertarians Are a Joke

    Pushkin; "If I did agreed with it, you would know I'm not a libetarian".

    Moody; You make a unique spelling mistake there; only you AND Jack spell 'libertarian' as 'libETarian'.
    As I said, I replied to the piece by McCarthy [unless McCarthy is pseudonym for Jack or yourself].
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Post Re: Why Libertarians Are a Joke

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    Pushkin; "If I did agreed with it, you would know I'm not a libetarian".

    Moody; You make a unique spelling mistake there; only you AND Jack spell 'libertarian' as 'libETarian'.
    Since when did this become a spelling be?

    As I said, I replied to the piece by McCarthy [unless McCarthy is pseudonym for Jack or yourself].
    Now you've become absolutely paranoid. You're just as bad as Tchort at Phora who thinks Adélaïde is me in disguise.
    Last edited by Moody; Thursday, April 1st, 2004 at 04:35 PM. Reason: removed uncivil elements of post

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