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Thread: Pedigree Collapse

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    Pedigree Collapse

    Here are two links to articles by Steve Sailor;http://www.vdare.com/sailer/070805_pinker.htm
    http://isteve.blogspot.com/2006/03/p...nbreeding.html
    Both articles discuss something I've brought up before in genealogy discussion. Every generation you go back in you pedigree, the number of ancestoral lines doubles. From 2 parents & 4 grandparents, by the 10th generation (8xgreat-grandparents) you have 1024 ancestoral lines. Eventually you have more ancestors then there were people alive. This is called "pedigree collapse".

    Demographer K.W. Wachtel estimated that an Englishman born in 1947 would have had two million unique ancestors living at the maximum point around 1200 AD, 750 years before. There'd be a billion open spots in the family tree in 1200, so each real individual would fill an average of 500 places. Pedigree collapse would set in farther into the past than 1200.

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    Interesting. Makes sense though. Today, we see many half brothers and sisters and family arrangements like those occurred in the past too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Americ View Post
    Here are two links to articles by Steve Sailor;http://www.vdare.com/sailer/070805_pinker.htm
    http://isteve.blogspot.com/2006/03/p...nbreeding.html
    Both articles discuss something I've brought up before in genealogy discussion. Every generation you go back in you pedigree, the number of ancestoral lines doubles. From 2 parents & 4 grandparents, by the 10th generation (8xgreat-grandparents) you have 1024 ancestoral lines. Eventually you have more ancestors then there were people alive. This is called "pedigree collapse".
    Yes, this is very true, although most people don't know it since they haven't gotten far back enough on all branches to see how damn big it gets.

    It is impossible to research your entire ancestry without hiring a team (say 100 of them) of genealogists working around the clock, in your lifetime.

    Strangely, though, I have zero intermarried cousins (or even 2nd cousins) in all of my records, which in some branches surmounts to 21 generations.

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    You have to consider though that family trees don’t just simply go back for each individual. The tree as it goes further and further back into the past begins to merge in with other family trees. So yes if you go back to a point it will be very large…but if you keep going further you will begin to see overlap with your ancestors having shared ancestors among themselves. Interesting concept though.
    For the Ancestors who came before us, the Generations that flow form us, for the Blood that is in our veins.

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    That is kinda cool! So in a way if we all went back far enough we would all be related!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kilroyturner View Post
    That is kinda cool! So in a way if we all went back far enough we would all be related!
    Well, it depends on how far you were to go back. There is a mitochondrial 'eve', per se, at roughly 80,000 years ago (making all humans related then), but if you're going to Europeans or even Germanics, it could be, for some people, as far back as 15000 years ago, when they crossed over from the Caucasus.

    The reason for that is that, while people did, at times move from city-to-city, there were times they were in one for hundreds or thousands of years. I know for a fact that on my mother's side, her entire line stayed in the same city region (there were two neighbor cities next to each other) from about 1450 to 1902.

    So, therefore you'd definitely find intermarriage among that city (hence, the reason I consider myself related to every single person in cities like that in my own ancestry.) But, by keeping things in one city makes it so that being related to others as less common than people think.

    However, through the movement of the Visigoths and Ostrogoths all over Western Europe, throughout the first millenia, I believe we (Germanics, and for that matter, Western Europeans) are all connected through that.

    It's sort of tragic that records only began being common in places outside of Iceland and Sicily in the mid-1500s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrodwulf View Post
    Well, it depends on how far you were to go back. There is a mitochondrial 'eve', per se, at roughly 80,000 years ago (making all humans related then.
    That is still a theory and one that has only limited DNA evidence and little fossil evidence. I do not doubt that all humans are related…I just think it was back a bit further at the Homo erectus or Homo habilis stage.
    For the Ancestors who came before us, the Generations that flow form us, for the Blood that is in our veins.

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