View Poll Results: Spare the Rod or Spoil the Child?

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  • Some Spanking for Discipline has never damaged a child's later life.

    100 70.92%
  • I would never spank my children, that's too old-fashioned and not good.

    20 14.18%
  • I don't know yet and I don't want to think about it now.

    9 6.38%
  • None of above, I explain...

    12 8.51%
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Thread: Methods of Parenting/Disciplining Children

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mischak
    I cannot stand bratty children. If you can't control your kid then don't bring it out in public.
    I must say, I second that 100%, and living in Greece where most children are as loud and annoying as their parents, I can say I have fought my urge to strangle a few of them quite a lot of times.

    I blame the parents, because bad-tempered children are almost always spoilt brats that have never been disciplined and have been taught no manners.

    It is customary to see in every greek restaurant big families with brats that scream frantically, are hyperactive and run around the tables disturbing other customers, without ever being scolded or even put back to their seat :

    Some greeks are even "proud" that their children are behaving like savages, because they consider that a sign of "health" and mistake "hyperactive" for "energetic" eyes:

    Quiet, well-behaving children are even frowned upon and mocked by their peers and even other parents, like "where's your energy?" and "there must be something wrong with this kid"...

    Anyways I too believe that if you can't discipline your child then you are a failed parent, and the least you could do for society is to keep them away from public places.
    And mind you, I am talking about kids that habitually misbehave and whose parents laguh about it, not the occasional temper tantrum which is normal for most children.

  2. #42
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    A good thread. I have more tolerance for mild misbehavior now that I have kids. The parent/s should corral the kids in restaraunts/libraries/busses/stores. I hate seeing parents humiate kids in public. Shame can be a useful emotion for motivating yourself but browbeating a child is just wrong.

    Even well behaved children can drive a parent to tears once or twice. Here is my daughter's worst. She did throw a laying down fit in the snow while I was taking her and my son home from my 2 week postpartum checkup. We were right next to a busy road and she did not want to walk or hold my hand. Losing 'book time' and 'craft time' and dessert had no effect this time, she was giggling/fighting about being held and spankings would be pointless through snowpants&coat. Thank goodness a cop stopped and gave us a ride home or it would have taken hours to get home via bus which is not what I wanted with 2 kids in January. My husband was working a double shift that day and he had the car.

    As far as negitive discipline goes. I prefer timeouts and loss of treats for my daughter. (Edit: By treats I me fun things to do not food or toys. As Next World said not fueling them works well. Just dont feed the trolls. Cheese sticks and unsweetened trail mix have saved my daughter from melt downs more than once.)I will give spankings if nessasary or hold her down if she is having a tantrum.

    Giving her things to do and things that she can be praised for is the most effective form of discipline in my opinion. Having a back up book to look at and a reward waiting at home help.
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  3. #43
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    Something I have always wondered?....
    When my daughter & son are together, they get more rilled up, with each other & not wanting to listen.
    If it is just one of them, they are angels. Do they feed off each other? :p

    Another thing for the mothers...how do you handle the stress? I know I have found myself so stressed by behavior I feel as if I could blow up...how do you get through those moments?
    "We've become a nation of strangers. There seems to be very little in common to bond us to our fellow Americans outside of our immediate families,some don't even have that to fall back on."

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. Lyfing View Post
    When my daughter & son are together, they get more rilled up, with each other & not wanting to listen.
    If it is just one of them, they are angels. Do they feed off each other? :p
    Of course they do, when they are together they become little trolls (j/k)

    Seriously, this is an accurate observation. I know it all too well from my kid brother and sister who are totally manageable on their own but a menace when they are together.

    They seem to establish some kind of internal consensus between them and find strength in unity so that they can torture adults mercilessly.

    Perhaps they sense that they are easier to discipline on their own, and try to behave so that they do not face the consequences alone.
    When they are together, the fear of punishment diminishes because they either feel stronger as a group (rather than units) or simply they carried away from each other's impulsiveness.
    Also, I suspect that being punished together makes the idea of punishment somewhat more fun than being punished alone.

    So here's your answer: when they get out of control, ground them in seperate rooms

  5. #45
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    I've written several essays on related subjects, they are where I am taking the unmarked quotations from.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. Lyfing View Post
    Do they feed off each other? :p
    Simply put--yes.
    I have an older brother. He didn’t want a little sister. Needless to say, the first decade of my life was full of competition with him. How do children compete? In any number of dangerous ways, of course. We try to be better; we try to be worse—anything for attention. Children crave the limelight, for eyes to be on them, for words to be directed at them, to be touched, even if we have to kick and scream and beat the heck out of one another to get it. In short, we caused many ruckuses. In a sense, the physical punishments we received were indeed not always good for emotional development. We wanted attention, and we were getting it, so we kept doing what we could to merit attention, even if it was negative. However, there were occasions that were less common, when we would sauce at our parents or do things that were purely malicious: These are the instances in which getting thrown over a knee and hit on the rump did benefit us.
    Entirely typical for children. Siblings often go through different phases of relationship. My brother and I are currently on fine terms with one another. We will face off from time to time, but when it comes to is Mom right or is the other sibling right, my brother usually gives me the benefit of the doubt. I tend to be more objective, but I rarely ever attack him outright.

    I've met some kids who compete for attention beyond the point that they want it--it just amuses them to see how much of their way they can get. Not everybody grows out of this.




    I was raised with various approaches.

    I'm not against spanking a child. There is a big difference between corporal punishment and abuse. I wrote a big essay about it for my Expository class. For some reason, none of the people who chose to argue against the spanking of children, they, themselves had been spanked growing up. Yet for some reason, those of us who had been spanked saw the benefit in it, and generally, are better behaved than our peers--and as far back as I can remember, this has been the case.

    My mother only ever hit me once, and boy, it worked. What I did could have literally wound up killing me and other people if I did it again. I think it would have been poor parenting for my mother not to have administered corporal punishment for such a thing, as if she had simply tried to explain it to me at that age, I really would not have been able to comprehend it. Don't get me wrong, I was one smart kid, I could reason quite well. This doesn't negate the fact that I was not capable of understanding the complexities of the issue at hand at that age, though. A few years later, a harsh scolding and an explanation of what I did wrong and why I shouldn't have done it and should never do it again would have sufficed.

    Good parenting requires discretion and fair treatment of a child. I feel like my intellect has never really been disrespected by my mother. Sometimes respecting a child's capacity is realizing that it does have its limits. How effective one's communication with their child is depends upon how much the child trusts the parent. I've been able to trust my mother, because she has always made the cause and effect relationships of acts and consequences very clear to me. Up until Middle School, every time I betrayed a rule she gave me, the circumstance she predicted would result from it. By this time, I had realized that it wasn't worth it to betray the majority of her rules.

    Empty threats are typically met by children in the same fashion as they are met by adults. My ex's son is another brilliant example. If the boy does something out of line, his father gives him one warning. If he continues, his father disperses the punishment he warned of. His mother, on the other hand, is an entirely hopeless case. She thinks that simply saying, "If you do that one more time..." seventy times in a row will actually encourage a child to stop doing something. In fact, now that they live apart, it encourages their son to do whatever is irritating more or worse. If he becomes so bad that his mother simply cannot handle the behavior, she's going to have to call his father up in attempts to make him "the bad guy". The boy would rather accept a scolding from his father than a blessing from his mother at this point, but it's pathetic when one must resort to calling someone else for "long distance child discipline".

    This brings me to another point that is often one of the first things running through my mind when I see a child throwing a fit in a supermarket: diet. The last time my ex's son got suspended, his mother resolved to "take him off of wheat", as she read that can affect the behavior of some people poorly. The kid is actually lashing out because he'd like to see his father, as most any child would, but is being denied that for a large series of adult idiocies he has no control over. Despite that, diet does have a huge effect on the behaviors of people, specifically children. Whenever I see a child in the grocery store, red in the face from screaming, I have the strange temptation to peer into the cart the mother temporarily abandons to threaten and yell at the child for embarrassing her (while really, parents usually just make the scene worse, embarrassing themselves).

    I automatically deduct 20 points of "blame" from the child for his behavior in terms of fitting because modern parents don't know how to feed themselves properly, much less their children. I remember that babysitting always was a bother for me when I had to see the things other people expected me to feed their children.

    I actually have taken to being quite forward, bordering upon rudeness, with parents attempting to control children who are having fits in public. It still beguiles me that parents use a child not "liking" anything other than crap to eat as an excuse for the child not having eaten anything other than crap lately. Who is supposed to run a family? :

    So, I usually have to take another 60 points of "blame" off of the child, because parents don't understand that they are supposed to be in charge. I didn't have a problem eating vegetables growing up. I didn't have a problem eating fruits or meats or dairy. The only thing I really grew to have an aversion to would be the very sugary. Just the same, most of the people I know admit that they did like at least a few veggies as children. If one gives a child the choice to eat only crap without explaining series consequences, then the child is going to prefer to and insist upon eating crap.

    Obviously the issue of parents not actually parenting goes far beyond diet.

    I cannot stand people who claim they’d never lay a hand upon a child. Of all of the people I have known to abuse children, the majority of them claimed to be against corporal punishment. Of all of the people I have known to administer corporal punishment, very few of them ever abused children. Force has its place in the world.

    I cannot stand people who shake children in public or yell at them or otherwise create an even larger scene when a kid is crying. Most other adults understand that kids get upset now and then. Indifference works wonders in a large portion of such cases. I remember being at the grocery store with friends one day, and a child was throwing quite the tantrum and the end of the isles. The mother calmly suggested to the child that he settle down, and of course the child had no response. The mother then went on as though nothing were happening, getting her groceries. Within a minute, the boy had wiped his eyes and was running to catch up with his mother. He had an absolutely stupefied look on his face. He didn’t make a peep the rest of the time I saw them there. There is a similar technique used with breast-feeding; if the baby being nursed bites or otherwise becomes unpleasant during feeding, she should be set down and left to herself for a moment. The sense of abandonment is horrifying, the idea that one has betrayed their parent is horrifying. Obviously, I wouldn’t recommend doing this in airports or busy shopping centers–physically leaving the child. One can ignore the child psychologically with a similar effect. Very rarely, this will backfire and children will go out of their way to be even more obnoxious, but if this is the case–either the child has a truly serious issue you need to address or you suck at parenting.

    I can’t stand people who barter with their children over things that should simply be authoritative. As in, I don’t think that a child should get an extra cookie under the condition that they do all of their homework. I hate parents who offer food as rewards. There’s a difference between treats and rewards.

    I can’t stand people who think that children don’t know any better than to do anything, and for that reason, their behavior cannot be helped. All children know better than to do certain things, and with each day they understand more and more and should be accountable for it. For example, I think that the young children, aged 5-10, who have dotted the news throughout the years for having murdered toddlers understood that they were doing something wrong. They knew better than to kill or even try to hurt another person. I don’t think I support capital punishment for them, but I don’t support people referring to them as innocent. Obviously their parents didn’t do a very good job, but there is an amount of blame always to be put on the child–even if it’s only a fraction of a percent.

    The way I grew up to see it, discipline is more of a lifestyle than a task. My mother taught me to do many things, she taught me to not do many things. At this point, if I do or do not do just about any of them, it is my responsibility and the consequence is mine to claim. It’s been this way for a few years. I can’t put a date on when I became capable of answering to each individual aspect of my life, but my mother has always known, and I have always known, what should fall on me.

    It’s not like I’m saying children need to be adults. Children are supposed to become them, though. So, it is sad, in that sense, that so many adult children are inflicting their ignorant ideas about livelihood onto their kids.
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  6. #46
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    Ahem here's my 2 bob's worth LOL

    I have 3 kids, and yes they do indeed feed off of each other. They have ways of hyping themselves and each other up that I am constantly amazed by!

    I notice how quiet it is when there is only 2 or even one of them around.

    I hated taking them shopping because that's when kids seem to play up most. I think the blame can lie with the parents not being strict enough at times when it is really needed, but I also believe supermarkets and the like are an advertiser's dream for entrapment - meaning the "I want, I want" scenario. Too many items are easily seen and within reach. Parents do need to draw lines and boundaries up though. It's through much practise and experience that it eventually pays off.

    My kids (two of them are teenagers) still want certain items, and believe me, how much they want doesn't change much, it's more of what they want! LOL My answer is always the same. Get a job, do some chores etc it has to be earned!

    For the people on here who aren't parents - the lines drawn aren't always so clear cut. Kids can play one parent off against the other and that's where you get a lot of breakdowns in the disciplining department. A united front by both parents nips these issues in the bud. But that's just one example. Parents get tired, they switch off (I know I do at times :p) and the dynamics of families are always changing. If you have a tight-knit network with extended families that tends to make a difference too. You're not doing it by yourself all the time, it lightens the load.

    I have an autistic child who was very challenging when he was little, and nothing can prepare you for those sort of things. They don't have the same capacity to understand the complexities like other kids do. I have been - and still am - a parrot, telling him and showing him the dos and don'ts all the time. Eventually it sinks in - but not before being given dirty looks from other people about how they think he should behave! And on more than one occasion, I've told them to f*ck off, I'd like to see you do a better job!

    In the end, kids grow up, they don't stay home so much, they'll get a job, eventually leave the nest and may have a family of their own. What I keep hearing is "Be nice to your kids, because they will be the ones who choose your nursing home" It's true!

    Edit: I skimmed through Next's post, but corporal punishment has been a valuable tool in disciplining kids. I remember a painful feather duster across the backs of my knees, a metal ruler across my knuckles from a teacher and a cane on my arse. Also I had to endure a cake of soap in my mouth once because I called my cousin a bastard! I was naughty, and that was the done thing. If you knew what was coming, you didn't dare behave in a fashion that warranted it. I had no problems with smacking my kids on their arses. Parents are too frightened now of the ramifications that come about with what the authorities deem to be child abuse, and kids have far too many rights for their own good. In saying that, there are still some stupid parents who don't have a clue about raising kids sensibly, the lack of respect that is shown to others is disturbing.

    Example: Recently, a three-year old boy - at the most - abused me for taking too long at the shopping counter while my goods were being loaded onto the trolley. I looked him in the eye and said "I beg your pardon?" and told his mother off for allowing him to say such tripe! If I ever had the gall to do that, my father would've clipped me around the ear. (I also grew up with the notion that you didn't eat or drink until you paid for what you bought, and I still behave that way, instilling that into my kids also) If my kids ever did that, they wouldn't have been sitting on their backsides for a week!

    As you can gather, I don't take kindly to these moral do-gooders who believe that we shouldn't discipline our children as we see fit and teach them to be well-mannered and respectful citizens. Little wonder then, that there is so much wrong with the world!
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  7. #47

    Methods of Disciplining Children

    I was standing in the guidance counselor's office today and a Negro family came through the doors. They had one little girl and boy with them who were probably no more than three or four years old. They weren't misbehaving, but just walking around curiously and ducking under tables as children tend to do. The minute they wandered a few feet away from the parents, however, they became mad and yanked the children by the arms, scolded and spanked them. The children didn't seem to have any concept of what they did wrong (neither did I really), but I was quite shocked at what a fuss the parents were making about it and how easily they seemed to resort to aggressive tactics to tend to their children.

    Of course, this happens all the time, but it never ceases to make me wonder why Negroes (in America, at least) generally tend to be more inclined to using physical forms of punishment against their children or forms of punishment that are intended to make their children fear them. When my mother did spank me, she always waited until we were home if I had misbehaved in public. Even so, spankings were rare. They had their place for major offenses, but if I did something minor it was a serious, "Don't do that" or a time-out. On the other hand, Negroes seem to think that white parents don't penalize their children enough.

    Is this the result of culture, socio-economic status, or could it be racial? For Europeans who have encountered Negroes, do you notice a similar trend? In other groups of people, (Latinos, Asians, etc.) how do you view their methods of disciplining children? Note that my point is not to argue about the rights and wrongs of spanking and use of violence against children, but if, how and why races differ in what means they choose to chastise their children.

  8. #48
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    It's called slave mentality, where the parents take the role of slave-owners. Just look at how black nationalism is infused with ideas from 19th century white racist theories. Look particularly at how they call each other n....., wear gold (read: slave) chains. And they have no pragmatic concept of their common African origin.

    They're still slaves. They should free themselves from the white man's liquor and guns, diet, etc.
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    The more common scenario I see is totally out of control black kids with no discipline whatsoever.

    I think some black parents overcorrect for this (you mentioned "parents" in the plural sense, indicating they are on the far 'family values' end as far as blacks go), they see the mass of unruly kids and screwed up teenagers and young adults around them, and are determined that their kids not end up this way, so they are ultra-strong disciplinarians.
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    I find a lot of blacks I see to be rough, thuggish, a lot of them also kinda scare me, with their behavior. (not all of coarse)
    So, I am not sure what kind of parenting they have. If it is lots of spanking, its not working out so well, as you can see plainly in the way they turn out.
    If its lots of anger, thats shining through as well with their children.

    I am not sure I can actually define discipline by race, I am sure each has its own this and that. I can't say all black parents or bad or all white parents are good.

    To me, it comes from the parent/parents. If you are always pissed and violent there is a good chance your child will be. If you are reserved, well trained, and a good individual you probably learned it from your parents, if you didn't learn it from your parents you learned it from your parents watching them fuck up & it made you do better.

    Back to the subject of blacks. Well, they are black ...whatcha expect?

    Seriously though I am sure many of the parents are more pron to violence because it must be in their blood. A Negro will shoot You dead no questions asked, they don't even feel the need to stop, just drive by & shoot.

    Being a Mom is the hardest job ever, anyone who can pull off raising a good kid, I give credit too.

    You also asked about other races & I have to add this, I don't see any Asians really but as far as Mexicans, their kids are usually pretty well behaved.
    Probably because they are very very few who are spoiled brats & I think a lot of the families are very close nit. Family means something to them, yea, if they could just keep it in Mexico.
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