View Poll Results: Spare the Rod or Spoil the Child?

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  • Some Spanking for Discipline has never damaged a child's later life.

    99 72.26%
  • I would never spank my children, that's too old-fashioned and not good.

    17 12.41%
  • I don't know yet and I don't want to think about it now.

    9 6.57%
  • None of above, I explain...

    12 8.76%
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Thread: Methods of Disciplining Children

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blood Axis View Post
    Mhh... tough question.

    I do not see however, why we should comply to either extreme.

    There are ways to "punish" and discipline a child that are much more effective than corporal punishment, such as confinement or deprivation of some pleasant activity, etc.

    I would rather use those and leave the spanking for very extreme cases - or not at all.
    Why? I don't understand why some people think spanking is such an "extreme" thing.

    In my opinion, and indeed from what I clearly remember as a kid, spanking is not only much more effective (particularly for smaller children), but the fact that it's over and done with quickly is another benefit of it. They learn their lesson quickly and then they can get on with life, and be reconciled with the parents.
    It's also on the kind of level they understand best, showing them who's boss, unlike trying to "reason" with a child, who has so little experience anyway.

    I think that deprivation of enjoyment is both harsher and less effective than a spank.

    People talk about emotional scars being caused by smacking, but if anything punishment on a more emotional level is more likely to leave a scar in that respect.

    And further, my opinion is that disciplining them before they reach an age in which misbehaviour is a nuisance to adults is vital. It's easy to ignore or even give them what they want when they're small, weak and helpless, but it sets the stage for their later behaviour; I think this may well be the cause of the "terrible twos", they get old enough to be a nuisance and the parents realise their child needs to be pulled into line, but the already spoilt kid resents it.

    Doing it as soon as misbehaviour becomes apparent also means the discipline can be milder.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhydderch
    I think this may well be the cause of the "terrible twos", they get old enough to be a nuisance and the parents realise their child needs to be pulled into line, but the already spoilt kid resents it.
    Nah... the reason for the "terrible twos" (which typically begins at about 18 months ) is that the small child reaches the normal psychological developmental stage where they become more willful and aware of "ownership" (this manifests as thinking everything belongs to them, not understanding the concept of sharing or taking turns, and fighting over toys etc with other kids. ). Yet because they are, at this age, still unable to control their own emotional responses to frustration, and still unable to understand their own feelings, nor other people's feelings, they throw tantrums when they don't get their own way. This is normal and no indication of being "spoilt" before they reach this stage. One could say that it is abnormal for a child not to go through the terrible two's stage of life, and therefore a cause for concern, rather than the other way around.

    The "spoilt" child is the one that never outgrows this "I want everything, give it to me!! I can do anything I want to and I really don't care how it will affect other people" stage due to inadequate discipline, guidance and inter-personal boundary setting by parents at the terrible two's stage of life - and consequently, they still behave like a 2 year old at the age of 15. :p

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridie View Post
    Nah... the reason for the "terrible twos" (which typically begins at about 18 months ) is that the small child reaches the normal psychological developmental stage where they become more willful and aware of "ownership" (this manifests as thinking everything belongs to them, not understanding the concept of sharing or taking turns, and fighting over toys etc with other kids. ). Yet because they are, at this age, still unable to control their own emotional responses to frustration, and still unable to understand their own feelings, nor other people's feelings, they throw tantrums when they don't get their own way. This is normal and no indication of being "spoilt" before they reach this stage. One could say that it is abnormal for a child not to go through the terrible two's stage of life, and therefore a cause for concern, rather than the other way around.
    Well, this is the sort of thing child psychologists say in an attempt to explain what happens, but there is no proof and I don't accept it

    I see this same behaviour in much smaller kids, they're obviously being rebellious and selfish, know what they're doing and need to be given a wack, but the parents just leave it.

    This behaviour is "normal" in the sense that most kids go through it, but I'm saying I think it's only because leaving them undisciplined at that age is also "normal".

    People talk about the "rebel" teenage stage as well, as if it's something normal and necessary, however well disciplined kids don't go through it. It's more a feature of liberalised countries.

    I'm not saying there isn't a developmental aspect to it mind you. But this period of development is only a problem because of lack of discipline.

    The "spoilt" child is the one that never outgrows this "[I]I want everything, give it to me!!
    But no-one would outgrow it if they weren't stopped.

  4. #34
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    Well, this is the sort of thing child psychologists say in an attempt to explain what happens, but there is no proof and I don't accept it

    I see this same behaviour in much smaller kids, they're obviously being rebellious and selfish, know what they're doing and need to be given a wack, but the parents just leave it.

    This behaviour is "normal" in the sense that most kids go through it, but I'm saying I think it's only because leaving them undisciplined at that age is also "normal".
    Its hard for you to really "know" kids though Rhydderch, unless you're with them all day every day like Mums are. Theorising from a distance is all well and good, but you must realise that you will often be wrong.

    Kids under 18 months being rebellious and selfish?? Well, "rebellious" is just plain wrong. To rebel against something you must have already learned social boundaries of acceptable behaviour and respect of social hierarchical structures.... but babies don't have this understanding yet.... they are still just learning it all for the first time. And this "learning" is a slow process that takes years. So they aren't actually "rebelling" against anything, they're just being babies.

    As for "selfish"... it is perfectly normal, and even necessary for babies to be selfish... its a survival mechanism. Its only later that they obtain the capacity to empathise with other people and understand that other people have needs and feelings too. Babies physically don't have the brain development to understand this.


    People talk about the "rebel" teenage stage as well, as if it's something normal and necessary, however well disciplined kids don't go through it. It's more a feature of liberalised countries.
    Well, mostly psychologists speak of the teen years as being a time for discovering an adult identity and attaining some independence from the family they were raised in. I think that everyone recognises that anti-social teens are not normal in that they are simply undisciplined and haven't been given adequate guidance and restrictions from authority figures in their younger years.


    I'm not saying there isn't a developmental aspect to it mind you. But this period of development is only a problem because of lack of discipline.
    I don't view a tantruming toddler who doesn't know how to share yet, for example, as a problem. I just see the 18 month old, or two year old as one who still needs to learn to control their behavioural responses and to understand the concept of sharing (and understand that they must adhere to certain acceptable behaviours).

    However, I would veiw a 4 year behaving in the same way as a problem that needs extra attention because by the age of 4 they should have outgrown tantrums and should have gained basic social skills... and if they haven't, its because they weren't parented well enough at the age of 2.


    But no-one would outgrow it if they weren't stopped.
    Yes, and that's exactly what I was saying. A tantruming 2 year old is normal, but must be taught how to better deal with their frustration so that they won't be trantruming for their whole lives as soon as they don't get their own way... a tantruming 15 year old is a child who never learnt how to deal with their emotional responses in an acceptable fashion as a younger child.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridie View Post
    Its hard for you to really "know" kids though Rhydderch, unless you're with them all day every day like Mums are. Theorising from a distance is all well and good, but you must realise that you will often be wrong.
    It doesn’t take a mother to recognise misbehaviour when one sees it. In fact parents (possibly mothers in particular) are sometimes blinded to the faults of their own children, and others can see it better.

    Kids under 18 months being rebellious and selfish?? Well, "rebellious" is just plain wrong.
    It's quite clear, these kids defy their parents for the sake of it. Their behaviour is just as arrogant as anybody's (indeed it's a lot more obvious), but it looks ridiculous because they're so small and dependant.

    To rebel against something you must have already learned social boundaries of acceptable behaviour and respect of social hierarchical structures....
    How do you know that? I believe this sort of thing is innate, and I think the evidence bears this out too.

    As for "selfish"... it is perfectly normal, and even necessary for babies to be selfish... its a survival mechanism. Its only later that they obtain the capacity to empathise with other people and understand that other people have needs and feelings too. Babies physically don't have the brain development to understand this.
    It depends what you mean by selfish I guess. I mean in the sense of wanting everything for themselves, when they don't really need it.

    I believe it's possible for a baby not to be like this.

    I don't view a tantruming toddler who doesn't know how to share yet, for example, as a problem. I just see the 18 month old, or two year old as one who still needs to learn to control their behavioural responses and to understand the concept of sharing (and understand that they must adhere to certain acceptable behaviours).

    However, I would veiw a 4 year behaving in the same way as a problem that needs extra attention because by the age of 4 they should have outgrown tantrums and should have gained basic social skills... and if they haven't, its because they weren't parented well enough at the age of 2.

    Yes, and that's exactly what I was saying. A tantruming 2 year old is normal, but must be taught how to better deal with their frustration so that they won't be trantruming for their whole lives as soon as they don't get their own way... a tantruming 15 year old is a child who never learnt how to deal with their emotional responses in an acceptable fashion as a younger child.
    I should point out here that our disagreement probably stems from something fundamental. Have you heard of "original sin"?

    I believe a sinless baby would be very different from an "ordinary" one. The sinful nature of mankind manifests itself from the earliest age, as soon as they can express themselves.

    The belief that certain (what I call) bad behaviour is normal will result in it not being dealt with adequately, and is likely to lead to problems later on.

    And like I said, what I see of kids' behaviour is very much consistent with this view of man.

  6. #36
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    Some discipline isn't wrong, the kids must learn how to behave. If they don't do it the nice way, spanking or some other form of punishment is called for. We must never let them control us and use blackmail!

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    Thumbs Down Behaved Youngins ...

    What do you think when you hear or see the brat in the grocery store who won't mind or is pitching a fit? Do you blame the child, the parents?

    I have 2 children, almost 4 years & 6 years. Sometimes I find it difficult to discipline, sometimes it easier than others. A lot of times I get caught up in the emotion for the child & feel as if I don't want to hurt their feelings...eyes:

    For the parents here, I am wondering what you think about these things?
    Do you have any tips to share? Such as time outs, or clever ways of discipline that worked for your children? Or ways that worked with you as a child?

    How can we raise well behaved & strong children?
    "We've become a nation of strangers. There seems to be very little in common to bond us to our fellow Americans outside of our immediate families,some don't even have that to fall back on."

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    I'm not a parent, but I wanted to comment. I cannot stand bratty children. If you can't control your kid then don't bring it out in public. Obviously much blame has to go to the parents, but I can assure you, when I was a child I wouldn't have even thought about (mis)behaving like the children I see today. My mother wasn't even particularly strict, but even when I was younger-which is really not that long ago-the general attitude was a lot different. It wouldn't have been acceptable for a child to act out in such a way, the child knew that and acted accordingly. If you didn't listen you got warned and if you still didn't behave your got your ass spanked.

  9. #39
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    Thumbs Down

    You should buy a leash.
    "For the authentic revolutionary conservative, what really counts is to be faithful not to past forms and institutions, but rather to principles of which such forms and institutions have been particular expressions, adequate for a specific period of time and in a specific geographical area." Julius Evola - Men Among the Ruins

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    What do you think when you hear or see the brat in the grocery store who won't mind or is pitching a fit? Do you blame the child, the parents?
    I think it's probably the parent that is to blame. Besides the point that often enough you have both parents working full hours even though one of their jobs would be lucrative enough to easily support a family and no one is actually around to teach them any manners (I know this as my mother looks after other people's children as a job, and she's had 5 or 6 year olds before where she was the first to contribute to a decent upbringing at all because their parents were either never around, or didn't care as to their offspring's conduct, for that matter), it is also a matter of how children are being brought up.

    Most kids can be an absolute pain at home - Hel after all they're kids and where they're most comfortable they'll try all cheek possible, it's a natural thing, to test the boundaries as a kid - however, I have to shake my head when kids are overly misbehaved in public.

    Both my little brother is, and I was an absolute pest at home, laying my mom's nerves blank constantly, however we understood from a very young age onwards that when visiting elsewhere, or when others were invited to our place, that we had to act accordingly.

    Maybe it's a class thing, but as unruly, annoying and ill-mannered as I was as a kid at home, I do remember that it was commonly remarked upon by family acquaintances what a clever, though inquisitive, and well-mannered child I was.

    As to address the actual question at hand, I think it would be most expedient to link to an older post of mine. Likewise, for answering your question, the thread in which it was posted in, could be of interest for you.

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