View Poll Results: Should polygamy be made legal?

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    103 37.18%
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Thread: Polygamy

  1. #671
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huginn ok Muninn View Post
    And throw the other 4 into a macerator and grind them into fertilizer?
    No, we don't do that. Are you implying every adult male has an adult female companion in our monogamous society? I would say this is not true.
    Do you think many people would engage in polygamy if we made it socially acceptable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    We have to decide whether we’re talking about implementing polygamy in the reality we’re living in right now or about a utopian ethnostate. These are two very different circumstances.
    You should assume the ethnostate, until stated otherwise. Do you really think people here are contemplating about how to implement polygamy (or any other relevant topic for that matter) within the context of our degenerate societies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    But even in the theory of a utopian ethnostate, there are a lot of problems with that idea. Mental capacity doesn’t have to - and probably more often actually doesn’t – correspond to physical capacity.
    You can read her suggestion as a "logical and". From Wikipedia

    "A and B" is true only if A is true and B is true.

    A being mental capabilities and B being physical ones.
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

  2. #672
    Mein Glaube ist die Liebe zu meinem Volk. Juthunge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    You should assume the ethnostate, until stated otherwise. Do you really think people here are contemplating about how to implement polygamy (or any other relevant topic for that matter) within the context of our degenerate societies?
    Gefjon and I were specifically discussing polygamy in the context of the current circumstances, if you reread her and my posts directly preceding that one of hers I was quoting from. She positioned it as a means to regain the demographical upper hand.

    You can read her suggestion as a "logical and". From Wikipedia

    "A and B" is true only if A is true and B is true.

    A being mental capabilities and B being physical ones.
    I’m well aware that she meant the “whole package”, thanks.

    My point was, that very highly intelligent scientists/geniuses are rarely athlethes. If you artificially select for those who combine moderate to relatively high physical, or even “mere” beauty, and mental capacity, you rob your gene pool of potential very highly intelligent people simply because they don’t meet the physical standards to procreate. That will eventually lead to a stop in your peoples cultural/technological development.

    You could probably reply with “then we will simply only select those who are indeed of very high physical and mental capacity at the same time” but that would be a group so small, that you could never possibly implement that system outside an ivory tower.
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  3. #673
    The lion's gate Chlodovech's Avatar
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    A claim I've come across a few times of late is that successful societies are always (overwhelmingly) monogamous -not sure how true this is, but it seems about right to me.
    "If we were going to stand in darkness, best we stand in a darkness we had made ourselves.” ― Douglas Coupland, Shampoo Planet

  4. #674
    Senior Member Theunissen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodovech View Post
    A claim I've come across a few times of late is that successful societies are always (overwhelmingly) monogamous -not sure how true this is, but it seems about right to me.
    I read that claim as well and it seems to be true. Apparently stable marriage is producing culture and sanity in children that lead to success in those societies. Also, stable marriages are a sign of middle class people, with the lower classes being by far more promiscuous. That's even something the Marxists noted deeming marriage as something "bourgeois", subsequently they advocated for "sexual liberation" and attacked anything related to "patriarchy", which would be a well ordered family with gender roles fulfilled and children respecting their parents.

    I also noted that successful organisations are always structured hierarchically with clear responsibilities assigned to its members. Egalitarian, democratically operating organisations don't seem to exist, and I would be interested in examples to the contrary to study them.

  5. #675
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    I've stated my views on polygamy already, in my view marriage should be between one man and one woman. Anything else is a peculiar environment to raise children in and it could lead to dysfunctional families. Yes peoples say that theoretically they could get along but practically it's not possible to treat all wives/husbands the same. It's not comparable to the love we feel for our family or friends. Being in love with someone is a very deeply romantic connection where you don't want to share that person with anyone else. How would such a marriage function? One wife for the cooking, one for the cleaning, taking turns which shares emotional and intimate time with the husband? There would be jealousy at some point, that a wife perceives she doesn't get same amount of attention. When children come, it will be worse, a woman's child being more favored above the other... that would be an unhealthy environment for children. Hmm, no matter which way we put it, it will lead to problems.
    Absolutely. Polygamy is, in addition, no Germanic traditional custom. Germanic men were admired for their ability to be loyal to only one wife. Polygamy is an alien tradition for alien cultures. Let's keep things Germanic, shall we? Especially considering how many anti-traditional unions are being forced on our societies.

  6. #676
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    You could probably reply with “then we will simply only select those who are indeed of very high physical and mental capacity at the same time” but that would be a group so small, that you could never possibly implement that system outside an ivory tower.
    First of all, I do not think it is so small. Quite the opposite. The idea that a beautiful body usually does not contain a great mind is propaganda to deconstruct our racial superiority.

    Secondly, if what you say is right, you should be all the more happy that polygamy will only target a very few.
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

  7. #677
    Eala Freia Fresena
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    As far as I understand it, polygamy is a concept of matriarchalic culture.

    There the women chose with whom they want sex (or to give sex, meanwhile women huddle together and men huddle together, no one really knows who the father of the children really is and nobody really cares about it. The children are the future of the tribe and primarily under the care of women. The girls stay permanently with the women, the boys transition to the men's world at age x, usually around 6 to 7 years old, but in general gravitate there earlier on. There is usually no rape as the whole group is pretty sensual.

    In a patriarchat, there are monogamic and rarely marriages with 1 man having several women. Generally the women are closely guarded to not have inter course outside the marriage, so it is fairly clear that the children of a wife are spawn of her husband. In general there are pretty severe consequences for a woman who cheats.


    In a Matriarchat there is usually no cultural progress, it is stagnant on the most common denominator.

    In a patriarchat is competition to be on a higher status. Thus there is a drive to evolve and be better than the neighbor. That involves women who are proud of their children and want that they are accepted by the higher status men. Thus you have a rapidly developmental group of people.

    A patriarchat is prone to rape, with severe consequences for the perpetrator, thus women are protected from violence.

    A Matriarchat is usually no match for a patriarchat.

    In modern society, we have a mix, where young girls decide with whom they sleep and it is mostly their choice, that changes when a woman marries then she transitioned to the patriarchat.

    Until recently, (it started about 50 years ago), the marriage started to break down through divorce laws and as it is mostly women who initiate divorce it gives them a path to return to matriarchy, having a life of her choosing, with minor financial losses.

    In the phase of degeneracy, marriage is meaningless, intercourse happens like in a Matriarchat. Marriage is no longer a protective measure, the father doesn't know, who fathered the children. And thus the men loose interest in protecting his wife, rape is a matter, men don't care much about it. It's part of a life of modern women.

    The deconstruction of white manhood goes hand in hand with the competition about white women by non-whites.

    We have here an agenda at work, which destroys patriarchy and the culture connected to it. For women it is depicted as a liberation. There is no man ruling her life, as well as very little support. It pictures a self-sufficient, independent woman who has a stable circle of woman friends and a constantly changing group of individual men.

    It is supported by an ever growing technology, which increasingly frees men and women from necessary work, as more and more is is computerized and automated.

    Currently there are studies on the way to take the burden of pregnancy away from women, rearing children at will in artificial wombs, that also includes designer babies as wished by the parents but most likely leads to a state produced reproduction, which opens the way to nefarious options.

    It seems that modern matriarchy (if you still want to call it that, which you can as women still control the access to their body in an unregulated way, but this time for mere pleasure) leads to a society without any connections on a deeper level, even the parent-child connection will be meaningless.

    Aging will be controlled, longevity will be the norm. With overpopulation most likely transferred to other planets.

    It will be a society of pleasure seeking individuals, which only live on a superficial level, with no desire to develope any form of culture.

    To my understanding only a firm white patriarchat can block this developement

    Stopping the production of designer babies (most likely playing around with gender), keeping marriage in tact and develope a culture to enhance humanity and bring them to a higher form of life.
    weel nich will dieken dej mot wieken

  8. #678
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    First of all, the argument that polygamy would help us increase our demographics is invalid. The amount of children that are born is dependent on the amount of fertile women. Polygamy can neither increase the amount of women in society nor increase the amount of children that a woman can give birth to at a time.

    The only thing polygamy does is increase the offspring of specific men. So to argue whether polygamy is beneficial or not, one needs to explain why some men should have more children than others. It is therefor a discussion about quality, not of quantity.
    The significance this would have for society would have to be rather big though, because it would in fact mean a complete change of our cultural habits. Changes have a bigger responsibility to prove their value than traditions which have the benefit of continuity of existence as a proof of their value. So polygamy should be 'worth the effort', so to speak. It might also not be 'merely' a cultural issue. Scientists have often showed the different reproductive strategies of African and European peoples and Europeans tend to put relatively more effort into raising an individual child. Polygamy seems to me to be difficult to reconcile with such a strategy, because at least the role of the father in child raising would be heavily diminished, which again leads to other problems.

  9. #679
    Senior Member Theunissen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernhard View Post
    First of all, the argument that polygamy would help us increase our demographics is invalid. The amount of children that are born is dependent on the amount of fertile women. Polygamy can neither increase the amount of women in society nor increase the amount of children that a woman can give birth to at a time.

    The only thing polygamy does is increase the offspring of specific men. So to argue whether polygamy is beneficial or not, one needs to explain why some men should have more children than others. It is therefor a discussion about quality, not of quantity....
    I fully agree with that. However if there is a disparity between the number of fertile men and women with the later outnumbering the former, it looks a bit different. Because if those man would all act strictly monogamous only those women that are lucky enough to have a man would become pregnant and bear children.

    That's why my thesis is that institutionalized polygamy arose under specific historical circumstance. There are several possibilities:
    - strongly reduced number of grown up men, with large availability of unwed females (e.g. after wars or diseases mostly lethal to men).
    - Limited number of men with sufficient control of resources to entertain one or more women.

    As for the later it seems that polygamous societies frequently also have disparities in the wealth men, control. The women are often assigned to perform a lot of labor and even welcome it, when the men takes another wife easing the burden on them.

    Germanic societies were normatively monogamous, while one could certainly find exceptions from that rule. Relative wealth parity and more balanced gender roles may have been a contributing factor to this.

  10. #680
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    Good points. Perhaps a case for polygamy could be made when the number of men is relatively low. But I doubt whether such an institution could become accepted in Germanic societies (not in the democratic sense, but in the sense of being compatible with the wider Germanic ethos), since it ceases to be necessary at the moment when the numbers are somewhat equal again and therefore cannot be established as a permanent institution. It would have too big of a disturbing impact on community life, everytime when it is temporarily established.

    At best then, a case for polygamy can be made when their is 1. sufficient distance between the wider community and the men that are allowed to (if it is demanded by the context) have multiple women, so as not to disturb the wider community life. 2. These men should possess a certain quality. Especially when the cause for higher male fatality is f.e. alcoholism, like in Eastern Europe. In such a case it would be counterproductive to simply 'hand over' the remaining single women to other alcoholics. 3. The men engaging in polygamous relationships should be wealthier. They have to make up for being less involved in their children's life by calling into being institutions or by paying other people to raise and educate their children.

    All these points, I think, point to polygamy as being acceptable only among an aristocratic elite, not as a general institution. Only then can it be beneficial.

    But still the ethical, religious and spiritual element is a discussion to be waged. From a christian point of view it wouldn't be allowed. From a pagan point of view we might make a case for restricted forms of polygamy, since there are examples of this in Germanic mythology.

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