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Thread: How Do You View the Eddas?

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    Senior Member Ægir's Avatar
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    How Do You View the Eddas?

    How do you view the Eddas? The Eddas are viewed by some as almost divine text that only by a small miracle have come down to us with the wisdom of our ancestors. Others view the Eddas as almost worthless Christian propaganda which paints a negative view of our Gods and Goddesses. Many fall somewhere in between. Some will say for example that Snorri Sturluson (author of the Prose Edda) was a secret pagan, others as a Christian propagandist. Now I certainly have my on very strong opinions concerning these issues, and I will be more than happy to share them as soon as some of you get this conversation started. I hope that we all can gain form this a deeper appreciation and understanding of our common folk way through this discourse!
    For the Ancestors who came before us, the Generations that flow form us, for the Blood that is in our veins.

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    New Member Rifnar's Avatar
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    I view them as guild lines. hey have been with out question muted and propagandaed against the follwer of the Aesir. But studying the culter that bore the Eddas and seaching deeper into their means give a soild ethic base into wich one can place their faith. I have been pagen, I use that word with pride as US born again christians (I find that term funny, did they die to be raised again ... no they commit sins in their beliefes and then demand absolution.... so hipacritacle) deam it a slur, for 27 years and still find my self learning new things from the Eddas.


    Thorrin Rifrifnar

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    Member Tyrson's Avatar
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    Personally I feel they still have a lot to teach us, for instance concerning how to deal with your neighbors, your countrymen and strangers in all sorts of situations. It also gives you a strong foothold within your own culture. Christians the world over are more or less forced to accept the history of the Jews as their own history and that's weird, to say the least.

    To my amazement an ordained minister of the Protestant Church in The Netherlands has also realized this and is now actually trying to convince his colleagues to read (in church!) from the Eddas as well as from the Bible. He claims, as most of us do, that most people in North-Western Europe are still rooted in the Germanic/Nordic tradition. Most Christian holy days were stolen from our ancestors and given Christian contents, but the original meaning never really got lost! In The Netherlands, and especially in the part where I live, the Veluwe, old folks still know lots of stories connected to the Northern Pantheon, even though often in a corrupted form. The funny thing is: the Veluwe is now firmly inside what we call the Bible Belt, whereas 125 years ago it was still the most heathen part of our country! In the town where I live, 18th century gravestones, even inside churches, still have runic markings. Mostly these are bindrunes in which Elhaz, Eihwaz, Nauthiz and Laguz are often incorporated: all connected to death, passing over and protection.

    Another funny fact you might like to know is that when Roman monks tried to convert the Saxons, they had the gospels re-written in Old Saxon especially for these heathens. Jesus is portrayed as a war-lord and his disciples as his warriors. Placenames like Bethlehem, become "Hill-fortress Bethlehem" and in the Lord's Prayer we are taught not to ask for our "daily bread" (in those days we weren't interested in that sissy stuff) but for, wait for it . . . "the wisdom of the runes" ! This Old Saxon gospels is called "The Heliand" (=healer!) and a modern English translation may be well worth reading for those of us with a Christian background.

    That was a lot of words to make my point and to ask MY final question: How do you feel about Edda readings in Christian churches? Good idea or bad idea or bound to fail?

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    I view them as great poetry from maybe neither a "secret pagan" or "Christian propagandist" but rather a poet making poetry ?

    And, I'll never shake the words of The Masks of Odin

    Foreword

    A good many people hearing of the Edda or of the Norse myths think mainly of Balder, the sun-god, who was slain by a twig of mistletoe; or they may conjure up mighty Thor, hurler of thunderbolts and lightning, whose footsteps make the earth quake. Or perhaps they remember Loki, trickster, mischief-maker without malice, who seems constantly to stir up trouble, yet as often by imaginative wit and intelligence resolves the difficulties he has caused.

    The Masks of Odin is a provocative study of "the wisdom of the ancient Norse." While it portrays the various aspects and forms that Odin assumes in order to gain knowledge of the nine worlds inhabited by gods and giants, humans, elves, and dwarfs, Elsa-Brita Titchenell has a larger purpose in view. As a serious student of both Edda and Theosophy her loom is cosmic in reach, its warp representing the theosophia perennis or enduring god-wisdom and its woof the Edda, whose many-colored threads she weaves into colorful and often inspiring patterns of interpretation.

    The world's oldest traditions hold that long ago all peoples, however widely separated, were the common inheritors of a body of sacred truths initially imparted to the earliest humanities by divine beings from higher regions; and, further, that myth-makers of every land were in greater or less degree transmitters of this archaic wisdom/science. Against this backdrop the author undertakes to interpret some of the more important sagas of the Norse Edda, retranslating them from the Swedish text and comparing it with the original Icelandic. Her aim is not to hammer out just another version of the Edda when already several in English are available both in prose and verse, but rather "to penetrate to the core of inspired meaning" hidden within the world's mythic lore. To attempt this would have been out of the question, she believes, but for two radical changes in the general thought life: first, the disclosure about a century ago of a significant portion of the universal theosophic philosophy by H. P. Blavatsky and its emancipating effect on the human spirit, and second, the new developments in Western science.

    In Part I Elsa Titchenell outlines the broad features of the principal characters involved in the drama of cosmic and terrestrial creation as recorded in the Edda, including the gifts to early mankind of spirit, mind, and vitality by three Aesir (gods) so that we humans in time might become "godmakers." Relating theosophic teachings and current findings of astrophysics and physics to traditional mythic symbols she depicts the ancient mythographers as philosophers and scientists of stature. To the Norse bards or skalds, the interplay between gods and giants represented the continuous interaction of spirit and matter on a series of "shelves" or planes as "rivers of lives" moved, each after its own manner, through mansion after mansion of planetary and solar spheres within Allfather-Odin's domain.

    In Part II, the author's Notes preceding the translated lays provide the reader with an invaluable guide through the often bewildering maze of metaphor and symbolic allusion. The opening saga is the well-known Voluspa or Sibyl's Prophecy, that tells of the formation of worlds, of Odin's search for wisdom in the spheres of matter, and of the "toppling of the world tree" when the gods withdraw and earth is no more -- until the Vala (Sibyl) sees another earth rising from the sea as old ills are resolved and the Aesir return. In the High One's Song, we read of Odin's consummate experience when for nine whole nights he "hung in the windtorn tree," the Tree of Life, so that he might "raise the runes" and drink the mead of omniscience.

    There is much to delight and instruct in the retelling of lay after lay, each with its own story and truth to impart. Admittedly only a portion of the available material is treated, and this is drawn chiefly from the Poetic or Elder Edda of Saemund the Wise. Cognizant, moreover, of the challenge posed by the mystery-language of symbolism in use by the poet-philosophers of old, the author is hopeful that others will find in this "fragment of runic wisdom" the stimulus to pursue further and more complete studies of the ancient Norse records.

    Whether writing as Eddist or theosophist, amateur scientist, mythographer, or translator, Elsa-Brita Titchenell by lucid and perceptive scholarship has earned for The Masks of Odin an honored place among Edda literature.

    GRACE F. KNOCHE
    -Lyfing

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    Senior Member Ægir's Avatar
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    Well my take on them is that they are in fact holy books but not on the lines of the Christian Bible. For me it is important not to put too much faith in books as they get altered over time and people tend to forget that. It is funny to see Christian fundamentalist trying to live straight by the bible when so much has been lost in translation both figuratively and literally. That being said they may have been worked on by secret pagans and Christian propagandist…yet they still hold spiritual truths for us today. As for those who think that it portrays our gods in a negative light I think they should reexamine their view of the modern world verses that of the ancients. To say that for example it shows Odin in a bad light because it shows him breaking oaths is an incorrect interpretation. Odin brake oaths out of necessity…therefore the real lesson is that all bets are off in certain situations. That is just an example but I hope it shows what I am trying to get at.
    For the Ancestors who came before us, the Generations that flow form us, for the Blood that is in our veins.

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    Radical Traditionalist :hveðrungur:'s Avatar
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    The Edda's contain myths and stories that should be viewed in a symbolic sense, they are allegory's. Each myth has many lessons to teach us, some of which are apparent lessons and some which desire more thought and contemplation. I hardly view the Edda's as Holy Texts myself due to the fact that they are Christianized.

    Take Stanza # 71 in Havamal for example:

    The halt can manage a horse,
    the handless a flock,
    The deaf be a doughty fighter,
    To be blind is better than to burn on a pyre:
    There is nothing the dead can do.


    This prolonging of a life, humanist statement strongly conflicts with the views held by the Germanic tribes in where the sick and elderly would sacrifice themselves for the better of the tribe / their folk by either tree hanging or a spear death. Obviously due to a change in the times / culture, most probably brought on by Christianity or Christian thought.

    And again maybe I'm wrong, but I still refuse to view any book as a holy book. Nature and the runes reveal what text and paper cannot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by :hveðrungur: View Post
    Take Stanza # 71 in Havamal for example:

    The halt can manage a horse,
    the handless a flock,
    The deaf be a doughty fighter,
    To be blind is better than to burn on a pyre:
    There is nothing the dead can do.


    This prolonging of a life, humanist statement strongly conflicts with the views held by the Germanic tribes in where the sick and elderly would sacrifice themselves for the better of the tribe / their folk by either tree hanging or a spear death. Obviously due to a change in the times / culture, most probably brought on by Christianity or Christian thought.
    I think I see your point, but if they can do that are they really a hindrance ?

    And when taking Stanza 76..

    Cattle die and kinsmen die,
    thyself eke soon wilt die;
    but fair fame will fade never,
    I ween, for him who wins it.

    ..into consideration.. I must wonder as it doesn't seem to be the Christian idea of building one's treasures up in heaven not on earth ?

    -Lyfing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyfing
    I think I see your point, but if they can do that are they really a hindrance ?
    The world today is seriously over populated and in horrible shape because of that exact train of thought. You tell me if there was not wisdom in the Germanics tradition of sacrificial suicide. Today too many people are trying to live past the age they should. It's no wonder there is so much disease and sickness in the world today, nature is trying to balance things out.

    I personally hope that I do not live past 70 years old, if I do I will probably end my own life. I cannot imagine getting so old that I wouldn't be able to physically take care of myself, it makes me feel sick


    All one has to really do is read the Eddas, especially the Prose edda to see our mythology has been severely Christianized. It was recorded in the viking age and while there are many viking age fettishist "Heathens" in the world today, the viking age was not a positive time in the time line of our Germanic folk nor the integral traditions and culture of our peoples. The "Viking age" may be considered the true "Twilight of the Gods", maybe in the next 200 years we will see a rebirth, it is obviously happening today on some very positive levels.
    E-mail: odalist@gmail.com
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    In those stanzas I think the emphasis is more on being heroic and making a good name for one's self and not anything like letting the degenerates bring down society. It could be crooked to off them and letting them live while not bringing us down is maybe stronger..considering they did their best which could be done by all.

    -Lyfing

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    THE “ORIGINAL CHARTER” The Sagas of the Kings of Norway.

    Up to about the year 1,000 A.D. all of the people of Scandinavia worked together on the basis of all being in the same BUSINESS one with another. This included the people of Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Iceland, almost all of the British Isles and other colonies.

    They worked together on the basis of all being in the same BUSINESS with one another because in those days they all had and used the “Original Charter of the Law,” which had written on it the PURPOSE OF THE LAW. Because they all had the same, one PURPOSE on their business Charter they were all one BUSINESS. Greco-Roman GOVERNMENT was entirely unused among them. (So, as we have seen, modern Americans are always talking about getting GOVERNMENT out and letting BUSINESS run things. But, they will never be able to until they all have a knowledge of and all subscribe to the single PURPOSE of their Law again, just as all of their Scandinavian ancestors did up to about the year 1,000 A.D.)

    At about the year 1,000 all Scandinavians decided to stop working together strictly as a BUSINESS and allowed the Greco-Roman idea of GOVERNMENT into their lives instead. Prior to that their lives had all been “business-like”; from then on their lives would be mostly “fooling around.”

    “Money” is not “Business.” “Money” is a Greco-Roman word and concept. “Business” is, originally, a Viking word and concept. “Money” has NOTHING TO DO with “Business.” “Money” is created by Greco-Roman Government telling people that they CANNOT KNOW what their own PURPOSE is. “Business” is created by a group of people all coming to a knowledge of and subscribing to the same PURPOSE.

    The hundred years after the year 1,000 A.D. was a very bloody 100 years for the Scandinavian peoples. During that 100 years they decided to introduce Greco-Roman GOVERNMENT among themselves so that after they conquered the Mediterranean Sea area with all of its trade they would know how to administer it, with Greco-Roman GOVERNMENT or, in one word, “Money.”

    That bloody 100 years ended with them essentially accomplishing their goal with their victory in the First Crusade. It was such a bloody 100 years IN Scandinavia, though, because in order to introduce “money” and Greco-Roman Government there, they had to DESTROY the copies of the Original Charter of the Law with everyone’s PURPOSE written down on it. This occurred during those 100 years except in Scandinavia’s very remote outpost across the Atlantic, on the fringe of America. That was Iceland.

    Of course Iceland had to hand in all of its copies of the “Original Charter” to the leaders of the Norwegian Vikings when the decision was made to change life among Scandinavians over from being strictly “business-like” to being mostly “fooling around,” that is, with the introduction of money. But, there was a peculiarity in Iceland. The ancestors of the Icelanders, who had first come there from Norway, were the most educated people in Norway. They left when they saw that life there was getting to be just more and more “fooling around,” as Scandinavia got ready for what it thought was a final showdown with Catholicism. They took all of their vast resources for learning with them from Norway to Iceland and have remained there in Iceland, as an entire people, the most educated country in the world ever since. An example of this may be in place. The best place in the world to be from, with one exception, if you are of European extraction and want to know your Genealogy, is New England. Since the people of New England have been very orderly and literate from the beginning, have kept very thorough records and have had no wars there that have destroyed their records, a person may find a record for nearly every one of his ancestors who lived there, all of the way back to when New England was founded by the Pilgrims, in 1620 A.D. There is NOTHING like that available to any other people of European descent, with one exception. That exception is Iceland. There is a record of every Icelander who has ever lived there. Every modern person of Icelandic blood may trace his or her ancestry back to the day when those first educated people from Norway came there, to found Iceland, in 870 A.D.

    So, the Icelanders all handed in all of their copies of the Original Charter of the Law to the leaders of Norway, to be destroyed, in the year 1,000 A.D. However, because they were all so educated, it is presumed that 100% of all Icelanders have been literate throughout the entire history of Iceland, THEY ALL REMEMBERED THE STORY.

    When the Crusaders from Northwest Europe won the Fourth Crusade, in the year 1204, they at last had destroyed their more than a millennium old mortal enemy, the Byzantine-Roman Empire. At that time they began to rule it. Now they had become the “Ultimate Issuing Authority” behind European Money in place of the Byzantines. This required, at the least, a very vicious extirpation of any remaining idea that the people of Northwest Europe still retained of what their PURPOSE was. When the Crusader Normans who ran England tried that in England they found that the Danish people in the Danelaw of Eastern England had grown to such numbers in that lush, fertile place that they and their Earls could force a termination of that effort. It was, then, these Free Sokemen, or “commune men,” from the communes of the “Weapontakes” of the Danelaw, in England, who forced King John to sign the Magna Carta.

    The people of Iceland were not quite so lucky. In their relatively barren land they had not multiplied in like strength as the Anglo-Danes of England’s Danelaw. They were relatively easy prey to the ruthless Crusader Normans, sent to Iceland, in these same times that produced the Magna Carta in England, to destroy there any surviving memory of the Purpose of Law. This was done quite completely even bringing a temporary halt to the operations of the Parliament of the Commonwealth of Iceland, that had begun its operations in 930 A.D.

    However as these efforts progressed to strengthen the concept of “Money” throughout Europe, by utterly destroying any remaining knowledge that the people of Northern Europe might have retained of the “Purpose” of their Law, they came upon what turned out to be an impossibility for their project, in the person of the man who had served as the High Steward of Iceland’s Commonwealth at the time the Magna Carta was signed. The more that the Crusader Normans decreed that all knowledge of the Original Charter of the Law should be destroyed, the more this High Steward of the Law in Iceland “wrote it down.”

    At last in desperation the King of Norway ordered this High Steward killed. He was finally killed on September 22, 1241 A.D., but not before he had written down a quite complete copy of the ORIGINAL CHARTER OF THE LAW, which his friends in Iceland succeeded in hiding until long after the pressure was off. As a matter of fact, in a little more than 250 years, the pressure had turned the other way.

    The Kaiser and the Pope wanted to take authority away from the traditional rulers of Northern Europe, around the year, 1500 A.D. They were doing this with their standard, age-old assertion of Socrates that none of the people had any idea at all what was good for them, that all of the rest of the people could agree with. The people of the “sokes” or “communes” of Scandinavia, on the other hand, in general had hung with an almost incredible tenacity to every scrap of the tradition of their ancient ancestors, in resistance to this universal assertion of Socrates that is the essence of the Catholicism that they all hated so desperately.

    During these times just before the 1500’s when the Kaiser and the Pope were trying to reassert their authority over the Money of all of Europe, by their same “tried and always proven effective” assertions of Socrates and his fellow ancient Greek Philosophers, the King of Denmark was getting desperate as to what in the world he could do to protect his traditional base of power from the Kaiser and the Pope.

    At this moment of his considerable distress, an Icelander got the word to him that the High Steward of Iceland, that had led Iceland at the time of the Magna Carta uprising in England, had written down almost the entirety of the Original Charter of Law.

    At hearing this, the King had copies of it duplicated and distributed throughout his realm of Denmark, Iceland, Norway and Sweden, all joined under one King at that time, to be prepared against the ominous-seeming scheme that the Kaiser and the Pope seemed to be plotting. Eventually a copy of that High Steward of Iceland’s Original Charter of the Law was eagerly welcomed into, and with the Bible made the heart of, nearly every home in Scandinavia, like a dearly beloved, long-lost child who was long ago despaired of but suddenly appeared back again at the house’s door.

    With that heart-felt acceptance into the homes of almost all Scandinavians, the name of that former High Steward of Iceland, Snorri Sturlusson, became household words throughout Scandinavia, and almost all of the details of his Original Charter of the Law are now known by all Scandinavians. But, there is a catch.

    All Scandinavians identified with this Original Charter very much. It explained where all of their Parliaments came from, where Juries came from, where all of their Rights came from, all of their Traditions, Folk Customs, Practices, Holidays, old way of Writing, their most ancient Monuments, the place-names in these Countries etc. etc. BUT, Scandinavians aren’t supermen. They are very human. The Original Charter is in form a wonderful, beautiful “Story.” Scandinavians delight in telling it, for all of the incredible number of explanations it gives for so many of the features of life in Scandinavia; however, on top of that, they hardly expect that the rest of the world would actually anticipate that they BELIEVE the Story.

    They love the Story; they love to tell it; they love to talk about it; but they DON’T believe it.

    Instead they treat the Story of the Original Charter of Law in exactly the same way that Americans treat the story of Santa Claus (which story is, indeed, contained in the Story of the Original Charter). They tell the story to their children; it has been required learning in school throughout Scandinavia, now, for a long while. They drill them in it and expect them to know it. They take tourists to the places where it was all supposed to have happened; they tell the tourists the Story; and then they have a big laugh. To them it is a joke; a joke that pervades life in Scandinavia, but a joke none-the-less.

    This Story shows the origin of the “fairy tales” of the Germanic race, such as were collected by the Grimm Brothers in Germany. Indeed, we could say that the Scandinavians treat that Story in the same way as Americans do fairy tales.

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