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Thread: Why Are You a Heathen?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radulfr View Post
    The original definition of heathen is commonly misundertood as most people overlook the real meaning of the word; not adhering to an abrahamic religion, may it be christianity, islam or judaism.

    It must be clear as ice that we are heathen in the eyes of the believers of the abrahamic faiths. But since I have (and I speak for myself only but many will agree) no intensions to live through somebody else their eyes, I don't consider myself heathen. The spiritual tradition I follow, which Thursatru/Ginnveda can be considered as a part of my Germanic origin; it is the closely related tradition that can apply to my Self.

    Another explanation of the term heathen is an uncultured or uncivilized person. Being a Germanic and a part of the Skadi community, no one will agree with being a heathen.
    Conclusion: the question "Why are you heathen?" is rather offensive in my eyes. No need to continue this thread, or must I say threat?

    Our forefathers could worship BOTH the christian god and the indo-european ones, you were allowed to take on a new "strong" god. When the missionaries came here they gave us a "christian light" version, details could be added later.

    There is a great new book which touches the subject.
    Vikinger i krig

  2. #32
    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hersir
    Our forefathers could worship BOTH the christian god and the indo-european ones, you were allowed to take on a new "strong" god.
    This isnt though what happened. "Christ" did not become simply a new member of the pantheon, incorporated into our original religion, but it replaced our original religion. And did so with all intentions, by calling our gods demons, creatures of the dark and evil, and excluded people from the community who continued to worship the original gods.

    Sure, in Scandinavia this maybe took longer and was not so brutal like it was here, but still, Olaf the "Holy" killed those who refused to "adopt" christianity, and that Iceland became "christian on paper" was a decision between being invaded, having the hostages held in Norway killed, and the island laid waste or accepting christian rule. And there are more such examples, also of destruction of holy sites etc.

    The Irish druids, who somehow brought 'christianity' with them from the east (Russia, today's Ukraine area), did incorporate it into their druidic religion, Christ was a mere addition to the pantheon. Rome did not accept that and massacred all of them and installed a Rome-loyal bishop who outlawed the druidic religion and the arianism version of christianity likewise.

    Yeah, all totally voluntary. Not. Cultural-marxist conquest, nothing more.


    Radulfr: I'd not be too worried over the Heathen term. Heiðinn (Heide / Heathen) means just heath dweller, and since we were a very rural, peaceful and strongly rooted in agricultural lifestyle society, it is even reasonable that we called that ourselves in contrast to the city dwellers in the Roman settlements. But indeed, it did not refer to the religion (although it might be argued that there was no perceived difference between lifestyle, religion, culture, as it used to be more or less one and the same anyway).
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  3. #33
    Hundhedensk "Friend of Germanics"
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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    This isnt though what happened. "Christ" did not become simply a new member of the pantheon, incorporated into our original religion, but it replaced our original religion. And did so with all intentions, by calling our gods demons, creatures of the dark and evil, and excluded people from the community who continued to worship the original gods.

    Sure, in Scandinavia this maybe took longer and was not so brutal like it was here, but still, Olaf the "Holy" killed those who refused to "adopt" christianity, and that Iceland became "christian on paper" was a decision between being invaded, having the hostages held in Norway killed, and the island laid waste or accepting christian rule. And there are more such examples, also of destruction of holy sites etc.

    The Irish druids, who somehow brought 'christianity' with them from the east (Russia, today's Ukraine area), did incorporate it into their druidic religion, Christ was a mere addition to the pantheon. Rome did not accept that and massacred all of them and installed a Rome-loyal bishop who outlawed the druidic religion and the arianism version of christianity likewise.

    Yeah, all totally voluntary. Not. Cultural-marxist conquest, nothing more.


    Radulfr: I'd not be too worried over the Heathen term. Heiðinn (Heide / Heathen) means just heath dweller, and since we were a very rural, peaceful and strongly rooted in agricultural lifestyle society, it is even reasonable that we called that ourselves in contrast to the city dwellers in the Roman settlements. But indeed, it did not refer to the religion (although it might be argued that there was no perceived difference between lifestyle, religion, culture, as it used to be more or less one and the same anyway).

    I know about all that. And it's not entirely correct, velvet. Dunno what happened in Germany, but here christianity absorbed alot of heathen tradition. Even today in Scandinavia we carry on these old heathen traditions. You know clearly that the vikings were not monotheistic.

    Yes, Rome was both bad and good for us. Germanics who went into Roman service brought back knowledge which made the viking age possibly, Roman weapons etc. from gravefinds are rich. The battle of Teutoburger would not have been possibly if it wasn't for Germanics who went into Roman service and gained war knowledge. Of course I know all about the destruction of holy sites, I even live near what was a great heathen hof but now has one of the oldest stone churches in my country. What Sankt Olav did wasn't really in the name of christianity, he just wanted to gain power. My relatives even came from the north to fight him, they didn't like that he would take away their freedom. Where did I state it was entirely voluntary? Your straw man tactic dosn't work on me.


    http://www.amazon.com/Germanization-Early-Medieval-Christianity-Sociohistorical/dp/0195104668

  4. #34
    Úlfhéðinn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hersir View Post
    Our forefathers could worship BOTH the christian god and the indo-european ones, you were allowed to take on a new "strong" god. When the missionaries came here they gave us a "christian light" version, details could be added later.

    There is a great new book which touches the subject.
    Vikinger i krig
    Takk for tittelen på boken. Det er definitivt verdt å lese.

    I am not sure if our forefathers could worship both the christian god and the indo-european gods or were forced to worship only the christian one. Christianity is very good in rewriting their own history to appear more friendly anno 2011.
    There are many stories of violent conversions, destructions of holy sites and the fact that Mjølner was, and still is used as a an opposition symbol to christendom makes it more appliable that it wasn't all that friendly.

    Some converted to christendom only for the public eyes but practiced their own spiritual tradition in private. Just to evade prosecution.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Radulfr: I'd not be too worried over the Heathen term. Heiðinn (Heide / Heathen) means just heath dweller, and since we were a very rural, peaceful and strongly rooted in agricultural lifestyle society, it is even reasonable that we called that ourselves in contrast to the city dwellers in the Roman settlements. But indeed, it did not refer to the religion (although it might be argued that there was no perceived difference between lifestyle, religion, culture, as it used to be more or less one and the same anyway).
    I don't have any sleepless nights over it. Only the fact that people force themselves within a certain framework without any gnosis concerns me sometimes to the point that it gets annoying.

    The term Heiðinn and its meaning I am familiar with but since most people live in the sewers we call cities, they lost total connection with the country side so they are not even worth it to think about this explanation.

  6. #36
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    From what I have read, Christian churches and temples also had altars where Heathens and Pagans could worship their gods and still practice ritual.

    I believe that a majority of the Heathens converted, which was indeed the plan to have the Pagan altars in the churches.

    Christianity, did destroy a lot of our Gods and ancient ways, but like Hersir said, we still have the sacred days and rituals that our Heathen ancestors celebrated.
    All things must come to the soul from it's roots, from where it is planted. The that is beside the running water is fresher, and gives more fruit.

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    Mein Glaube ist die Liebe zu meinem Volk. Juthunge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    The Irish druids, who somehow brought 'christianity' with them from the east (Russia, today's Ukraine area), did incorporate it into their druidic religion, Christ was a mere addition to the pantheon. Rome did not accept that and massacred all of them and installed a Rome-loyal bishop who outlawed the druidic religion and the arianism version of christianity likewise.
    Sorry but that didn't make any sense to me whatsoever.
    First of all the Romans never set foot in Ireland, what you're referring to is probably the slaughter of the druids and the destruction of their sacred groves on the Welsh island of Anglesey, which happened in 61 AD, at a time when the Romans were still very well heathen themselves.
    The Romans actually equalised Celtic deities with their own deities and didn't outlaw it until Christianity became the state religion 200-300 years later, although the druids indeed played no part from that moment on.

    Furthermore, Arianism is a product of the 3rd century and I'm not exactly sure what you mean by druids importing Christianity from Russia.
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    Senior Member Meister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ælfrun View Post
    From what I have read, Christian churches and temples also had altars where Heathens and Pagans could worship their gods and still practice ritual.

    I believe that a majority of the Heathens converted, which was indeed the plan to have the Pagan altars in the churches.

    Christianity, did destroy a lot of our Gods and ancient ways, but like Hersir said, we still have the sacred days and rituals that our Heathen ancestors celebrated.
    That is what makes me lean towards the old religions, Christiantity from what I have seen and read was modified in various ways to get the European Heathens to accept it. Many of the Christian Saints are Pagan Gods and Goddesses for example and as Ælfrun has mentioned we still have the sacred days and rituals even if some of them are now called different names.
    I grew up on a belief of honour, courage and the old world values. The world isn't about that anymore, preferring to die a slow death of fast food and cheap thrills.

  9. #39
    Senior Member TheStormer's Avatar
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    I am a heathen for the following reasons:

    1. While heathenism seeks converts, it allows the potential convert to consider the possibilities of belonging to a new faith. The Abrahamic faiths, on the other hand, seek converts through guilt and fear. No sane person should have to follow something through these barbaric methods. This is how tyrants rule.

    2. Heathenism does not only allow, but it encourages one to stand before the Gods rather than kneel. The faiths of Abraham force one to bow down and take it up the rear-end and never say a word.

    3. Heathenism allows one to be a free thinker and it is not a sin to question all authority figures, even the Gods and Goddesses. As for the Abrahamic faiths, one is required to be blindly obediant and it is not a wise idea to question the words written in their holy books. If one compares Satan to Emmanuel Goldstein before a Christian or a Muslim, he or she will likely be flayed alive and treated like trash.

    4. Heathenism is in my blood. Maybe I am missing missing something, but I do not see how one can mantain a Germanic identity and be a Christian. Christianity is far too universal for me and I cannot find myself relating to a god worshipped by as many non-whites as Aryans. One can alter Christianity all they want and paint Jesus as a blonde and blue-eyed Aryan, but that still does not change the fact that Christianity is a foreign faith and it is still Semitic in its origins.

    5. I find heathenism to be more spiritually satisfying than the faiths of Abraham. Also, if I want to feel spiritually comfortable, I just visit the countryside or relax in a forest. I do not need a church or a temple to bring this form of satisfaction.

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    Senior Member Feyn's Avatar
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    I was raised learning about christianity and about the old ways, so i could choose. Then i had a very powerful epiphany when i was 24. I regularly dreamed about the gods, but never thought anything about it. To me it was just dreams, nothing more. Then i dreamed a very vivid dream about talking to THOR and he told me that i will have a bad accident the next few days, but he will see to it that nothing happens to me so i finally see that those aren´t just dreams.
    The accident really happened, and till today i can fathom that I survived this accident. I drove of the road into a thick forest, and that downhill, so i drove at least 70-100 meters into the forest. That I didn´t hit any tree head on was more then lucky, someone looked out for me that day. I bounced of quite a few trees like a billiard ball though, and my car was just a wreck. When the police saw the car they where convinced to only find a body, but i didn´t even have a scratch ! Since that day i pay attention to my dreams, and every now and then i am told of things to come. THOR is the god i dream of the most, he is also my patron god. Already as a child i was fascinated by him ! Him and Arminius the Cherusci where the hero´s of my childhood and not batman or superman like my other friends ^^ Many kids thought i am a bit odd because of that, but who cares. My heroes where real !!!
    There won't be humans in 500 years. Enough people choke themselves when they jerk off we gave it a name. We ain't a species made to last.

    Judging by it´s name common sense must once have been a pretty common thing. When and why did that change, so it became the rare treasure it is today???

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