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Thread: Atheists Battle Against Religion

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    Atheists Battle Against Religion

    Atheists Battle Against Religion

    Atheists Are Finding Their Voice and Finding an Audience, but Some Call it Another Form of Extremism

    March 4, 2007 — This week, the Supreme Court heard arguments in a case brought by a group of atheists who claim the Bush administration's Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives violates the separation of church and state.
    It's just one example of how atheists are becoming increasingly assertive — arguing not only that religion is false, but also a threat to civilization.
    Outside the court, atheists and people of faith squared off. Inside, the Freedom From Religion Foundation made its case against the president's pet program.
    The foundation's co-president, Dan Barker, was a fundamentalist preacher for 19 years. Now, he's preaching from a different text — specifically, "separation of church and state, and reason and kindness in place of superstition and ideologies."
    But Barker and his wife, Annie Laurie Gaylor, who is also the foundation's co-president, said the problem is bigger than the Bush administration and its faith-based initiatives. They see a world being torn apart by religious fundamentalists of all stripes.
    "[Religion is] the source of the greatest violence in the world," Gaylor said. "More people have been killed in the world for religion over any other reason."
    That atheist argument seems to resonating. There's an atheist Internet recruiting campaign, atheist summer camps and several bestselling books — including "Letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris.
    Harris claims religion is nothing less than a global threat.
    "We have a world that has been shattered, quite unnecessarily, by competing religious beliefs," Harris said. "We have Christians against Muslims against Jews. They're making incompatible claims on real estate in the Middle East as though God were some kind of omniscient real estate broker parsing out parcels of land to his chosen flock. People are literally dying over ancient literature."
    Perhaps not surprisingly, people of faith don't agree with the argument that faith is wrong or dangerous.
    "I understand that people who claim certain religious beliefs have done terrible things throughout history," said Randall Baumer, professor of American religious history at Columbia University. "I think the challenge is for people of faith to be true to the principles of the faith. I think the challenge is coming back and reclaiming the real principles of the faith, so that we act decently toward one another."

    By DAN HARRIS and PAUL BEBAN



    ABC News: Atheists Battle Against Religion
    When men cease to fight — they cease to be — Men.
    “Critics are like eunuchs in a harem; they know how it's done, they've seen it done every day, but they're unable to do it themselves.” Brendan Behan

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    AW: Atheists Battle Against Religion

    I'm really tired of atheists and all their pseudo arguments. Let's face it, atheism is completely useless and even contraproductive to people since it takes away their old morals, customs and communities and doesn't replace it with anything. Atheism has nothing to offer and much to take. There's also not more truth in atheism than in theism since the question for God or not is simply unanswerable for us and therefore indifference belief would be a scientific point of view. The belief in supernatural powers have also never lead to a war, power hungry political leaders and monarchs started wars convering their real reasons under the coat of religion...
    Ceterum censeo Iudaeam esse delendam.

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    Re: Atheists Battle Against Religion

    I'm really tired of atheists and all their pseudo arguments. Let's face it, atheism is completely useless and even contraproductive to people since it takes away their old morals, customs and communities and doesn't replace it with anything. Atheism has nothing to offer and much to take. There's also not more truth in atheism than in theism since the question for God or not is simply unanswerable for us and therefore indifference belief would be a scientific point of view. The belief in supernatural powers have also never lead to a war, power hungry political leaders and monarchs started wars convering their real reasons under the coat of religion...
    True. I'm an atheist in that I don't believe in personified, omnipotent, supernatural entities as moral absolutes, as it seems too crude and too easy for man to comprehend. But this "battle against religion" is just childish. The fact that Richard Dawkins is one of this camp really lowered his credibility as a scientist in my eyes.

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    Re: AW: Atheists Battle Against Religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Illuminatus View Post
    I'm really tired of atheists and all their pseudo arguments. Let's face it, atheism is completely useless and even contraproductive to people since it takes away their old morals, customs and communities and doesn't replace it with anything. Atheism has nothing to offer and much to take. There's also not more truth in atheism than in theism since the question for God or not is simply unanswerable for us and therefore indifference belief would be a scientific point of view. The belief in supernatural powers have also never lead to a war, power hungry political leaders and monarchs started wars convering their real reasons under the coat of religion...
    About morals, atheists are less likely to commit crimes, so appearntly thier moral conscience is greater. but don't get me wrong, i'm against those arrogant atheists who strongly oppose religion and ridicule it in every opportunity they get.

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    AW: Re: AW: Atheists Battle Against Religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Pro-Alpine View Post
    About morals, atheists are less likely to commit crimes, so appearntly thier moral conscience is greater.
    That's a naive fellacy. You have to take a look at who those confessing atheists are. Since our general society is still secular religious most people hold some kind of lose belief and confessing atheists are mostly found among the people with higher education and those are generally less likely to commit crimes.
    Besides that, atheists can't have morals, maybe ethics but no morals
    Ceterum censeo Iudaeam esse delendam.

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    Re: AW: Atheists Battle Against Religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Illuminatus View Post
    I'm really tired of atheists and all their pseudo arguments. Let's face it, atheism is completely useless and even contraproductive to people since it takes away their old morals, customs and communities and doesn't replace it with anything. Atheism has nothing to offer and much to take. There's also not more truth in atheism than in theism since the question for God or not is simply unanswerable for us and therefore indifference belief would be a scientific point of view. The belief in supernatural powers have also never lead to a war, power hungry political leaders and monarchs started wars convering their real reasons under the coat of religion...
    hm I don't think so...

    OK atheism is useless, but religions too...
    they destroyed (and are still destroying) as much as they build or even more

    Don't you think a world without religions would be a bit more peaceful?
    Ok it's not their God who says "FIGHT!" , in fact God says nothing at all, but do we need a God that does nothing ?

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    AW: Re: AW: Atheists Battle Against Religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Nekron View Post
    hm I don't think so...

    OK atheism is useless, but religions too...
    they destroyed (and are still destroying) as much as they build or even more

    Don't you think a world without religions would be a bit more peaceful?
    Ok it's not their God who says "FIGHT!" , in fact God says nothing at all, but do we need a God that does nothing ?
    Religions aren't useless because they create community and give people hope and morality, something atheism can't. Atheism is entirely negative, it destroys so much but doesn't provide you with anything.

    No, a world without religion would not be more peaceful. Just think about the atheist pseudo communist attempts in many countries like Russia, China or Cambodia in the last century.

    God, whether it exists or not, is needed because it, in opposit to our corrupted and imperfect society, is the eventual, just and perfect authority people want to rely on and it can only fulfill this role if it actually doesn't talk and stays totally neutral for us so there's no way for us to contradict its opinion
    Ceterum censeo Iudaeam esse delendam.

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    Re: Atheists Battle Against Religion

    but religions cause also wars and violence

    There are so many wars in cause of different religions, how can you say religions make the world more peaceful?

    and why should I obey a God that doest't exist and who has no power?

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    AW: Re: Atheists Battle Against Religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Nekron View Post
    but religions cause also wars and violence

    There are so many wars in cause of different religions, how can you say religions make the world more peaceful?

    and why should I obey a God that doest't exist and who has no power?
    Has there been any significiant war which happened because of the religion itself and not because of a leader using religion to cover up his true agenda?

    How can you obey God while God has never said anything? Who says that God doesn't exist or has no power?
    Ceterum censeo Iudaeam esse delendam.

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    Re: Atheists Battle Against Religion

    Illuminatus: Atheists do not give pseudo arguments. Atheism does not mean abandoning of old morals, customs and communities. You are right when you say that the question for God is unanswerable at the present time, so there should be no reason for people to be theists. Science does show strong possibility of there being nothing like God. I also find it difficult to agree with you that belief in supernatural has never lead to a war (or cruelties). I suppose Europe suffered a lot because of them. The blame for the Germanic people longing for their lost culture can be put on people who had some particular supernatural belief.

    In your second post, you mention that religions give hope. Hope does not come true for all people. It is a false hope, and the reaction of those for whom it does not come true is more devastating. That is how Jesus felt on the cross, 'O Father, why have you forsaken me?' I do not know why you are associating atheism with negativity, I can only say that you do not understand atheism. Atheism provides hope on sounder principles of chance and probability. The European society has been with present God for the last two thousand years. If it is still corrupted and imperfect, is not it time to look for something else?

    SubGnostic: Some atheists are happy to keep their beliefs to themselves. Some, when confronted by superstition of the religions, speak against that. The fault also lies with the religious people who would like to force their beliefs down our throats.

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