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Thread: Matriarchal Societies in Pre-Celtic Europe

  1. #11
    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Thank you for that diagram.
    I disagree with a few of the terms;

    "FORMS OF HUMAN SOCIETY"

    I don't like the term 'society' which is used throughout - it implies a lack of racial or even political cohesion.

    "COUPLE (Male & Female)"

    I would begin with "The Ancestors", as this suggests more than the first couple [shades of Adam and Eve?].


    "HUMANITY (Human Species{all races})"

    I would rather have The Future Race [i.e., one race may evolve beyond the others and so create a New Species].


    "SOCIETY OF STATES (Humankind)"

    This ignores the ever-present Friend/Enemy antithesis, as well as the previous objections.

    "(Society of Nations)"

    I prefer the term 'World Order of Nations'.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

  2. #12
    Account Inactive Hellenic Eagle's Avatar
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    The problem of birth rates in Europe and in general, is the result of our capitalistic, strongly antagonistic society. Women are forced to go out of the house and work to make a living. In that respect they (sometimes) neglect their female nature, develop masculine behaviours in order to survive in the market and in the end live to work and work to live. In this situation, having even one single child is a burden, therefore working women, only have children in a later age, after they reach 30 years of age, and the children usually grow up alone. In the meantime, the woman becomes hostile to the ideal of 'family', as something standing in front of her career. The role model of the successfull bussinesswoman, the independent liberated one, has destroyed the sacred ideal of the mother. And moreover, women tend to become hostile to men and try their best to prove themselves equal to them, in the open market of society.

    This is the tremendous harm that corporations and capitalistic states have done in the traditional family ideal. This is where we understand that people have become slaves of the money, they only live to survive, they do not have any higher ideals, they do not have unity in their nation states, or in their families. The question is: is this situation reversible or are we all going straight to hell?

    The patriarchal family is according to nature, the foundation of a naturally functioning society. I believe that however capitalistic and commercial Southern Europe becomes, the patriarchic model will remain, because there is no other way. However, it is true that inside the house the woman is the master, and if she is not corrupted by false standards of liberalism and feminism she does her best to raise her children correctly. But as we speak, the time that man woman and children spend together as a family is decreasing and decreading, for they are now owned by different corporations where they give most of their power.
    Thus our society has reached the point of the American society=Anarchus Capitalism. A capitalism knowing no boundaries, no nations, no borders, destroys everything in its pass...
    This is the point were society has become one big working field, not different from the communist society where everyone had to work for the materialistic "war of the classes", nowdays the materialistic kingdom is here and everyone has to work for the corporations..

  3. #13
    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Straight to Hell boys ...

    Excellent words, Hellenic Eagle.

    Just to add;

    There is also the dysgenic effects of later pregnancies [i.e., off-spring born to women in their late teens/early twenties tend to be better specimens than those born to mothers in their late thirties and forties].
    Only women in their very youthful prime are good racial producers.

    Also, women in affluent Western countries could quite easily budget to have children, but they are too selfish; they would rather have a glam life-style than further the Race.
    Those that do have children generally have no time for them, dropping them off to nannies who are often poorly paid immigrants.
    Taking little interest in their children's education they give them over to the liberal propaganda which poisons an already dwindling Race.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Senior Member Scoob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenic Eagle
    What do you think is the system that seems to operate in Northern and Southern Europe, or even in Western or Eastern Europe.

    Are Northern European societies more "feminine" than Southern European?

    For example, there are many women in politics in Sweden something like 50% i believe, but that is not the case for Southern Europe. I believe the societies of Southern Europe are less materialistic and more Patriarchal still.
    I think that there are two ethics: Southern and Northern. These "ethics" can also be interpreted as biological survival strategies.

    The Southern ethic is strongly Family. Clearly defined gender roles. Adults in these cultures tend to be strongly family-oriented, not just towards wife and child, but also towards elders and extended family.

    Southern Women are expected to be mothers and faithful wives.
    Sourthern Men are expected to be providers for family and also sexually prolithic (both with the wife, and outside the family).

    The North is more equalitarian. Gender roles are NOT so clearly defined. There is a "liberalism" where women and men are more free, from social restrictions on gender and sexual behavior, and on from their families. This is also a type of individualism.

    I wonder if this is very ancient. Even physically, Southern people seem to have greater gender sexual dimorphism than Northern people.

    Which strategy is better? Each think themselves the better way, or the "only" way. Souther-strategy people are especially moralistic and think their way superior. But that's just someone's opinion. Only history will tell, and Nature has one test: who survives.

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    Senior Member Scoob's Avatar
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    Post Authority in Med vs Nord culture

    I notice Meds, who are more family oriented, tend to see "The Law" as sort of just "The Sytem, the powers that be." There's not an inherent respect for the law, not at all. (Maybe that's why Meds haven't made a stable government in the Old or New worlds in recent history). The law is something to work around, to find loopholes in, to sneak under. However, the family is important as a unit of social control, and Meds I know are very faithful to what their family wants and believes.

    More Nordic types (meaning Germanic, in my experience) tend to be much more individualistic regarding the family. They have a tendency to go their own way in life, often keeping only slight contact with the family. However, they have an inherent respect for "The Law", which they tend to regard as almost a supernatural entity. I interpret this as what 19th century observers spoke of as the "Aryan sense of honor," which has to do with law and duty, a respect for a certain type of authority.

    So for Meds, authority comes from the family. For Nords, it comes more from the state or abstract ideals of right and wrong.

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    Senior Member Aethrei's Avatar
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    Post Re: Matriarchy and Patriarchy in Northern and Southern Europe today

    Great, lay it all on the women! hahha...

    And who will speak of those men who started all the women wanting to look glamorous, etc. cutting down the pregnancy rates because they thought pregnant women don't look nice, motherly women have lost all their attractiveness they cry!

    How many men here would indeed seriously commit to a marriage?

    And how many Nietzscheans here! I know how all of you would bring in the reason of philosophers need their solitude, etc. but you philosophers are the best genes - who shall complain and raise the issue of the best types constituting our race being out of our gene pool, eh?

    Hypocrites all of you! Haha..

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    Senior Member Scoob's Avatar
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    Post Re: Matriarchy and Patriarchy in Northern and Southern Europe today

    Check out this article;

    http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/gimbutas.html

    It describes how the center of Matrilocal systems in the ancient world was Southeastern Europe and stretched all the way along the Mediterranean Sea to the British Isles in the Atlantic. These goddess-worshipping, "Dionysian" cultures were the core of Old Europe before the Aryan Invasions.

    The Aryan cultures that spread across Europe from near the Black Sea later brought more patriarchal, authoritarian cultures along with male war/sky gods, and changed European society and religion as they mixed in.

    This is all very ancient, before Classical Greece, which was already a cultural mix of these and other elements. So it's no big surprise if the more "Aryan" countries have different gender values - although matriarchy and patriarchy are the wrong words to describe the two systems.
    Last edited by Moody; Thursday, May 13th, 2004 at 07:02 PM. Reason: repaired link

  8. #18
    Account Inactive Hellenic Eagle's Avatar
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    Thumbs Down Re: Matriarchy and Patriarchy in Northern and Southern Europe today

    There never existed any "goddess-worshiping Dionysian cultures".

    Dionysos is a male Greek God who was worshiped by Greeks many many centuries before the so called classical times.
    Last edited by Moody; Thursday, May 13th, 2004 at 07:04 PM. Reason: uncivil

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    Senior Member Scoob's Avatar
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    Thumbs Down Re: Matriarchy and Patriarchy in Northern and Southern Europe today

    There were never any goddess-worshipping Dionysian cultures? Oh really? So I suppose then that ancient Athens was not named after a patroness goddess? And the various Greek tragedies we have transcriptions of today (without the music, unfortunately) were not performed in honor of Dionysus? I suppose I have my facts confused, and Aeschylus, Euripides, Aristophanes, Sophocles et al were not playwrights in the classical period of Greece?

    Or maybe each of these facts I cited here is correct, and you have some other criteria for the phrase "Dionysian goddess-worshipping cultures." If so, let's hear them.
    Last edited by Moody; Thursday, May 13th, 2004 at 07:05 PM. Reason: response to incivility

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: Matriarchy and the European Mythos

    I tend to interpret the ancient Greek myth of the Sphinx in a rather Romantic way.

    The Sphinx is a terrifying caricature of female power, her name means literally the 'strangler' [cf., asphixiation].

    She is a remnant possibly of that long lost Matriarchy where men were enslaved and sacrificed to the Great Mother in Old Europe.


    F. von Stuck, The Sphinx
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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