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Thread: Russia - future 'menace again' - or hype?

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    Senior Member Carl's Avatar
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    Russia - future 'menace again' - or hype?

    ""Russians are coming again, British Tories warn

    ""D Telegraph 19/02/2007



    The Russians are using billions of dollars of oil profits to rearm, just as British defence chiefs prepare for cuts in the summer's Government spending review, the Conservatives have warned.

    Liam Fox, the Conservative party's defence spokesman, sounded the alarm about "the growing and accelerating rearmament in Russia" in a House of Commons debate.

    He claimed that President Vladimir Putin's government is planning to spend $183 billion (£94 billion) over the next nine years — or $1.7 billion (£900 million) a month — on its armament programme.

    His warning of a Russian resurgence comes amid increasing concerns about the 'overstretch' of Britain's Armed Forces and cutbacks in the defence budget in this summer's Comprehensive Spending Review. The weapons shopping spree between 2007 and 2015 could push Russia's spending towards Cold War levels.

    Dr Fox, who visited Eastern Europe earlier this year, said that weapons on order include:

    • 69 Topol-M missiles with between 70 and 200 nuclear warheads;

    • five nuclear ballistic missile submarines;

    • 60 Bulava intercontinental ballistic missiles, with 400 to 600 warheads;

    • 1,400 tanks;

    • 4,100 infantry fighting vehicles;

    • 3,000 armoured personnel carriers;

    • 1,000 combat aircraft and helicopters;

    • 60 theatre quasi-ballistic missile systems.

    He warned that Russia had been covertly rearming while "the eyes of the West have been elsewhere".

    Dr Fox added that while the UK is planning to invest in the next generation of the Trident nuclear deterrent "the Russians are already investing heavily in more warheads".

    Russia has been careful to manage its expenditure using its oil and gas reserves. The country's central bank now has gold reserves of almost $65 billion, and currency reserves of $259 billion.

    Dr Fox said: "Every $1 rise in the price of a barrel of oil provides another $1 billion for the Russian exchequer."

    He continued: "It goes hand in hand with its increasing willingness to use natural resources, and fossil fuels in particular, to achieve political ends."

    Signs of this growing aggression have been seen in Russia's energy rows with the Baltic states and with Ukraine, Georgia, and Belarus.

    Despite Dr Fox's warning, a Government spokesman said: "Russia is a key partner across issues including Iran, the Middle East peace process and the fight against terrorism. We are in close touch with Russia bilaterally and through international organisations including the G8."

    Earlier this week relations between Russia and the West took a downturn after Moscow expressed outrage at US plans to station interceptor missiles in eastern Europe.

    Gen Yuri Baluyevsky, the chief of staff, said that Russia was now considering withdrawing from the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces treaty.

    The treaty was viewed as a landmark in ending the Cold War, when it was signed in 1988 by Ronald Reagan and Mikhail Gorbachev.

    "We shall see how our American partners act," said Gen Baluyevsky. "What they are doing at the moment is totally inexplicable."

    Mr Putin has rejected explanations that the missile defence shield, which will be located in the Czech Republic and Poland, is a deterrent against Iran and North Korea.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    ..... could this be another 'Churchillian' warning - or is it unreasonable alarm ? ( I know what Oswiu would have said.... )

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    Re: RUSSIA - future 'menace again' - or hype??

    Missile shield 'threatens Russia'

    The US has had mixed results from its missile tests
    US plans to expand its embryonic missile defence shield to the Czech Republic and Poland are an "an obvious threat", Russia military officials say.
    Poland has confirmed the US wants to negotiate the use of its territory to build part of its missile defence base.

    On Sunday, the US asked permission from the Czech Republic and received the backing of Czech PM Mirek Topolanek.

    Washington says it needs interceptor missiles in Europe to stop attacks by states like Iran or North Korea.

    It hopes to build a radar station in the Czech Republic and to site interceptors in Poland.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6286289.stm

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    Senior Member Mazorquero's Avatar
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    Re: RUSSIA - future 'menace again' - or hype??

    I don't see Russia as a threat sincerely. The Kremlin knows that the Chechnya war wasn't exactly succesful, and I'm sure they are seeing how small low-tech armies like Afgans or Irakis show fierce resitance to great powers like USA. Besides, Russia was always big and powerful to try any direct attack, and the modern Russia is not the Soviet Union, it has no wish of geting involved in any imperialist campaign (also, I don't think western countries still have Russia as the "Communist Monster" of previous decades).
    My opinion on Russias rearming is the following:
    -Keeping the same level the NATO achieved recently, as if it were a postwar tradition. It's also a way to say "Don't dare to tell me what to do" in responce to the hidrocarbon problem.
    -Becoming the new world leader in gun commerce, because they produce excellent quality armament at cheap price.
    -Keeping calmed ex-Soviet republics.

    We should worry about Israel, India and Pakistan, these folks do have power and are enough mad to launch a nuke bomb without thinking it twice.
    To all those who want to know how some American scientist and militars think (and at the same time learn about a lot of modern armament) go to the following site:
    Federation of American Scienists (Military Analysis Network)

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    Re: RUSSIA - future 'menace again' - or hype??

    Russia a future menace? Well i guess it depends on whether or not you ask a northern European who will tell you it's a huge threath, while those not living here will say they're harmless. I for one don't trust the russians one bit.

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    Account Inactive Nicola_Canadian's Avatar
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    Re: RUSSIA - future 'menace again' - or hype?

    Why in a world would you deploy a radar system in Czech republic and missiles in Poland if you want to protect yourself from say Iran or North Korea??? If you are really paranoid about it, then go ahead and place it in Turkey that is a member of NATO as well.

    So it is clear that the radar and missiles in the Eastern Europe have nothing to do with Iran or North Korea... And if so, then against who are they deployed and especially why suddenly now??? Besides, if we just imagine such an incredible nuclear war with Russia, the Russian middle range missiles would simply attack the radar and the missiles in the first place. Can you imagine what would happen with Poland and Czech republic??? I guess some may think that for the sake of US they can sacrificed... But what are the guys in Poland and Czech are thinking about??? Regular people there were protesting in the streets but the leaders of the countries are simple puppets of Zionism...

    However, the funniest thing here is that it was not even NATO decision to place the radar and missiles there. It was a direct agreement between US and Poland as well as Czech republic. This simply shows that US is not really interested in the opinion of other members of NATO considering them their servants...

    Well, btw all of this info is totally omitted in the very first article presented here (and in any usual western n(J)ews reports) changing the entire focus on Russia and resurrecting the old Cold War slogans... Why suddenly??? Because it doesn't really matter what the reality of Russia is - is it Communistic or Democratic, weak or strong, big or small, European or Asian, pro-western or anti-western - all of that are just different words for the same slogans... The only thing what matters is that Russia will always be a competitor to the US and Zionism because it will never be a puppet like current Poland and Czech... Currently Russia's economy is finally booming and it is simply telling - "Hey, we have the same rights to protect our interest just like you do... So let's play fair"... And when say Germany wants to have common business with Russia, US hates that the most but the only puppets it can rely on is Poland and Czech...

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    Re: RUSSIA - future 'menace again' - or hype?

    Russia's navy is a total rust heap. Most of this armament can not be deployed well by Russia. Globally speaking, they are in no shape to launch an offense. Although, with their natural resources, and under the right leadership, they could regain some military footing. Much of even the former Soviet Union might was just a paper tiger relying on Western handouts in technology and massive grain shipments just to prop up their failed communist economy. Worldwide jewry in the US was all too glad to help out. I am not too worried about Russia though. At least not yet. But all Scandinavian countries should definitely arm up anyway. If I was in Finland, say, I would advocate total defensive measures employed to include one hundred percent citizen militia already in place. That is just wise.

    We must secure the existence of Our Volk and a future for Germanic Children.

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    Senior Member Carl's Avatar
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    Re: RUSSIA - future 'menace again' - or hype?

    Now I wonder if we might ever get a secret report from "our (old) man in Moscow", Oswiu !! --- perhaps it mightn't be too easy.....He'll have new masters now perhaps....

    The Russia watch is ongoing and complex. They have already used their oil and gas power to exert influence.... one can well imagine that extending! And the old rusting gear can easily be replaced -- after all, they are now flushed with German money (etc) ; they even want to buy some of 'us' up here .....We can only watch -- unless , of course, its right to think that 'defensive' preparations are indeed underway . Yes , good point - why are those rockets so far north - based in 'Polish' Pomerania ??

    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    "" Defence shield sites threatened by Russia

    ""Telegraph 20/02/2007

    Russia threatened to train its missiles on Poland and the Czech Republic yesterday after the two countries signaled they would host a controversial US missile defence shield despite vehement objections from the Kremlin.

    The warning came hours after Czech prime minister Mirek Topolanek and his Polish counterpart Jaroslaw Kaczynski told a press conference in Warsaw that their response to the US proposal, made last month, would "most likely be positive."

    The Pentagon has asked to deploy 10 interceptor missiles in Poland and a radar system in the Czech Republic — two former Warsaw Pact countries that are now EU and Nato members — as part of the first global integrated missile defence shield in Europe.

    Yesterday Gen Nikolai Solovtsov, commander of Russia's Strategic Missile Forces, warned that the proposed locations of the defensive shield would be targeted if Poland and the Czech Republic accepted the proposal.

    He also repeated a threat to pull out of a Cold War treaty restricting the production of intermediate range missiles capable of striking Europe.

    "It is not difficult to restore their production," Gen Solovstov said referring to medium-range missiles scrapped under the Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces (INF) treaty - the 1987 agreement signed by Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev and US President Ronald Reagan.

    "The missiles were dismantled, but the production technology has remained." He suggested that it would take five or six years, or even less, to build upgraded versions...........

    The US plan has caused a further chill in relations between the two former Cold War superpowers, with Moscow rejecting Washington's insistence that the missiles are meant to defend the west against an attack by Iran.

    Earlier this month President Vladimir Putin claimed that the proposed missile deployment represented a direct threat against Russia's interests during a ferocious attack on US foreign policy at a conference in Munich.

    Russia argues that Iran has no intercontinental ballistic missiles capable of striking the west. Iran's longest range missile is the Shahab-3, which can strike targets within a radius of 620 miles. But the Pentagon fears that Teheran is working on three new generations of the Shahab, the most powerful of which has a range of 4,154 miles.""

    conflict with Estonia ?
    http://forums.skadi.net/conflict_rus...8.html?nojs=1#

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    Re: RUSSIA - future 'menace again' - or hype?

    Russia is waiting in the wings for the US to slip so it can step into the limelight and become the worlds premier superpower. I can't say i blame them, but neither do i support them.

    Frankly speaking America has completely ballsed up with it's period as the only superpower and 'leader of the free world' so i wouldn't be sad to see their government lose it's pre-eminent position. But i don't see anything from Russia to make me think they would do a better job. In fact, given their history of over oppression and technological incompetance, i don't see anything good coming from Russia gaining dominance.

    To be honest, if we want to see any radical changes in the western world, then the best option would be for the status quo of the cold war to fall apart completely. For the nations of the world to look to stand on their own again, rather than simply leaning on either America or Russia.
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    Re: RUSSIA - future 'menace again' - or hype?

    seems to me that the focus is in the wrong place...if a new superpower were to emerge it would not be russia, but china...US and russia are the past, their populations are aging and declining, the US is drowning in debt while the russian economy is functioning mostly on natural resources...china, on the other hand, has plenty of people who can go to war, a tonne of money to finance it, and plenty of reasons to go to war - from overpopulation to need for more raw materials....they're also spending lots of money on stuff like their space missions etc...the "taikonaut" - very much a superpower stunt...seems to me like they are the logical choice for next superpower/military threat...

    of course the US has been going on power trips recently...and failing misserably...i wonder how long *that* will last

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    Senior Member RedJack's Avatar
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    Re: RUSSIA - future 'menace again' - or hype?

    Psycho-pixie raises some good points. So, we'd better make friends with the rooskies. We'll be needing each other.
    Don't let Europe Rule Britannia!

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