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Thread: The Racial Makeup of Northern Italy

  1. #11
    Account Inactive dazed&confused's Avatar
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    Re: Northern Italy

    Quote Originally Posted by Nordgau View Post
    Besides the Germans, there are in one part of South Tyrol only the speakers of Ladin, a Romance language lingually related with the Reto-Romanic speakers in the Swiss Alpes; culturally and "nationally", the Ladins are traditionally troublefree interweaved with the Germans in South Tyrol.
    Yes, Ladin is a romance language belonging to the rheto-romance subgroup just like rumansch and furlan. Ladins are supposed to be the descedents of people in the present Friuli region who moved in the dolomitic area after the fall of the western roman empire. I actually don't know if ladin speakers in südtyrol consider themselves as "Kulturdeutsche" but ladin speakers in the provinces of Trento and Belluno generally refer to themselves either as a group of their own with strong ties with people from Friuli or simply as Italians.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Waarnemer's Avatar
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    Re: Northern Italy

    Quote Originally Posted by Aistulf View Post
    I don't see how "Northern ‘Italy’" is less [Celto-]Germanic than, say, (parts of) Flanders. People will acknowledge someone with Huzar's appearance as Germanic if he had Flemish ancestry and lived in Flanders. The emphasis lies with location I tend to notice often; geopolitics, I hope not?

    Feature-wise Huzar is partially dinaric/sub-nordid, sure, but you can definately see the nordish influences. "Northern ‘Italy’" is, traditionally at least, not "mediterranean"; neither sub-racially or geographically. (Not that mediterranean is something thoroughly ‘inferior,’ or whatever, just saying...)


    Note: I didn't start this thread, my post was originally a reply in the picture thread.
    quite stupid, im well aware arguments against always fall slow, but i will give it a turn. aistulf is part northern italian? perhaps that would be enough for response. we have basic history, linguistics, and physical anthropology but you covert yourself in quite nice there, enlighten me, what is part(s)? east or west? brabant or limburg? flanders was always germanic, before the franks, at best some say celticised germanics

    "Caesar's sources informed him "that the greater part of the Belgae were sprung from the Germans, and that, having crossed the Rhine at an early period, they had settled there, on account of the fertility of the country," (Commentarii de Bello Gallico 2.4)"

    "here is however consensus that the Menapii and the Eburoni used a German language. Tacitus reported that the Nervii were of German origin too (and proud of it). Zosimus mentioned that Bononia (Boulogne-sur-mer, southwest of Calais), a city within the territory of the Morini, was 'Germanorum'. It is possible that the German-Gaul language border crossed though Belgium as it does today, and on a similar place."
    italy is mediterranean, if it borders the sea then it is a mediterranean nation, there is nothing germanic about northern italy, except you're perception

  3. #13
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    Re: Northern Italy

    It is a vexata quaestio, what is for sure is that we are not mediterranean (greeks or phoenicians).

    It alsod epends on the zone.

    Most of Northen italy has been extensively setteld by southern italians in the sixties (a rough ten per cent in most towns, more in turin and certain industrial centers).

    So we have to go to the country to see real Northerners among the peasants.

    That's where you get a really white (rosy) skin and a decent amount of blue eyes, where they speak our rough roman-gaulish languages.

    Said that, most of the types are either gaulish or, in the venetian area, slavic.

    In heavily longobardized areas german types are frequent, however, even if they will never be a significant majority to call us germans.

    After all the Romans called us Gallia Cisalpina , not Germania cisalpina.

    So, after having proudly shown my torquis, i must warn that Italy is not a nation but a set of different nations.


    The only unifyng moment was Renaissance, Risorgimento was an elite movement aimed initially at the creation of a Northern Italian state, whose industries were fledging in the 19th century.

    Alas the unifyng myth was based on a supposed inheritance of all teh italians of the spirit of Rome (a great fairy tale), so we ended up dragging a byzantine Rome and a definitely different South, which was no more anything like a Magna Graecia at all.


    Since you are germans, keep in mind what Metternich said about Italy: a geographic expression.


    Our NI languages fall into the the romance classification, not the italian one.

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    Account Inactive dazed&confused's Avatar
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    Re: Northern Italy

    Warmeer do you think that Northern Italians (and maybe even central ones) have a different attitude towards life, work, society etc. than Southern Italians or do you think they act the same way?

  5. #15
    Account Inactive Huzar's Avatar
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    Re: Northern Italy

    Quote Originally Posted by Waarnemer View Post
    italy is mediterranean, if it borders the sea then it is a mediterranean nation, there is nothing germanic about northern italy, except you're perception

    Italy (italic peninsul, better) is obviously mediterranean, but northern part is something i wouldn't classify as mediterranean. Not Germanic of course, but of course continental European (almost part of central Europe). A strange border zone.

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    Senior Member Waarnemer's Avatar
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    Re: Northern Italy

    Quote Originally Posted by dazed&confused View Post
    Warmeer do you think that Northern Italians (and maybe even central ones) have a different attitude towards life, work, society etc. than Southern Italians or do you think they act the same way?
    its not simple, either way that doesn't make germanic. i am not in a position to make statements on a matter thats not mine, but i know that geographically the north is more strategically in favor of economical strength.

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    Account Inactive dazed&confused's Avatar
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    Re: Northern Italy

    Quote Originally Posted by Waarnemer View Post
    its not simple, either way that doesn't make germanic. i am not in a position to make statements on a matter thats not mine, but i know that geographically the north is more strategically in favor of economical strength.
    I was referring to those stereotypes about Italians being loud-mouthed, boldy-mannered, lazy, undisciplined, peasant attituted etc.
    I think we northerners are actually mild-mannered, soft-spoken, hard-working, and more respectful towards authority and institutions.
    I don't mean to generalize or to sound offensive towards the southerners but I wonder where some stereotypes spawned from


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    Senior Member Mac Seafraidh's Avatar
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    Re: Northern Italy

    I have said it before. Not a supporter of Italian separatism, but it would be nice if each group would stay in their own regions.

  9. #19
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    Re: Northern Italy

    Quote Originally Posted by Huzar View Post
    Italy (italic peninsul, better) is obviously mediterranean, but northern part is something i wouldn't classify as mediterranean.
    How would you classify Southern-France? Nice and Caen were pretty Mediteranean for me. Even the Italian part of Switzerland is so different from the German part, that I would consider it Mediteranean.
    In all German literature Venice is the ultimate of Mediteranean culture, etc.
    If you call yourself "Central-European" you are pretty alone, or who else would you consider "Central-European".
    Maybe it is just a matter of perspective? I bet if you live next to the Southern-Italians you just happen to notice a difference, which makes oyu call them Mediteranean and yourself "Central-European", and a Bavarian notices a difference between them and North-Italy and ... you get the drift
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

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    Senior Member János Hunyadi's Avatar
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    Re: Northern Italy

    Quote Originally Posted by Mazorquero View Post
    For the same reason, you'll find a mix of Italian and German surnames at both sides of the frontier, and a non-official bilinguism. There are even redheads there, with Italian surnames..
    When I watched the Winter Olympics last year I remember seeing lots of Italian competitors with German surnames.

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