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Thread: WAR ZONE : UK - South London's "Nihilistic Anarchy"

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    Senior Member Carl's Avatar
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    Mad WAR ZONE : UK - South London's "Nihilistic Anarchy"

    Years ago it was predicted that we would end up like America! Guns and Drugs became an increasing part of our underworld culture. Now, much younger youths have taken to "tooling up" just for the fashion value of it - except that, they also use the guns rather too freely. Be warned - this is how things now seem to be! Nihilism , long predicted, has hit the streets.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    ""Armed police sent to stop teenage murders

    ""Daily Telegraph 16/02/2007

    ! Blair: This is not a metaphor for the state of British society

    FACT : 'Very young' children have access to guns, warns charity

    Armed police patrols are to be stepped up on the streets of south London after a spate of teenage murders.

    Two 15-year-old boys and one 16-year-old have been shot dead within 11 days and at least one is thought to be a case of mistaken identity.

    Sir Ian Blair, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, said police had identified a "new trend" of young teenagers increasingly being involved in serious violent crime and killings. Cdr Cressida Dick, of Scotland Yard's Specialist Crime Directorate, said the three deaths of such young people were "unprecedented". "It has shocked and appalled my officers greatly," she said. "The policing response will be considerable and relentless." Sir Ian has spoken to Home Secretary John Reid about lowering the age from 21 to 17 for which a mandatory five-year sentence for carrying a gun is imposed.

    Police yesterday appealed to people on the Fenwick Estate in Clapham, south London, to help solve the murder of Billy Cox, 15, a convicted burglar. Investigating officers said his 13-year-old sister Elizabeth heard a "loud bang" at 3.30pm on Wednesday and walked into her home to find her brother shot in the chest. She and a friend tried to give him first aid and called an ambulance but he died at the scene.

    Billy's father Tom, a 52-year-old builder, urged the south London community to "get behind the police 100%". He said his son was not perfect, but was dearly loved.

    Mr Cox and his wife Kim, 48, from Thailand, were "away" at the time of the shooting, according to a senior police source.

    The inquiry is being headed by Det Chf Supt Helen Ball, head of the Trident task force which tackles black on black crime in London. "We are trying to find if anybody saw anyone go in or out of the house and we are also trying to find if anyone had a motive for attacking or injuring Billy in any way," said DCS Ball.

    There was no sign of forced entry and police said Billy, who had been beaten up two days earlier, may have known his killer. One man who knew him claimed he had become a "runner" for a drugs gang.

    Friends left flowers and messages outside the maisonette on the 1960s housing estate. One, written in text-message English, read: "Fallen Soldier. U're in a beta place. We all miss u Bills." Friends said Cox was keen on "music and art", referring to his rapping and graffiti, where he used the "tag" Remer; street slang for "remedial".

    One schoolfriend said: "He was a fighter and a soldier, he had been hurt before, he had been through a lot. It's all about the youths around here, it's the way they have to act."

    Billy's sister, Elizabeth, was described by one neighbour as a talented ballet dancer but youth workers spoke of Billy as a boy who had gone badly off the rails. Police sources said he had been electronically tagged as part of a 12-month supervision order imposed last December for burglary and was under a 7pm to 7am curfew.

    A man who had worked with Billy since the age of eight said he had been banned from the Fenwick Estate youth centre for swearing at a staff member.

    He was said to have recurrent discipline problems at school, exacerbated by cannabis use, and left before he was permanently excluded.""

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    Senior Member Mazorquero's Avatar
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    Re: WAR ZONE : UK - South London's "Nihilistic Anarchy"

    There's a word for that problem: "Favelization", which means "becoming favelas". Favelas are very poor neighbourhoods in the suburbs of the biggest Brazilian cities, where almost all their population are very dark-skinned and where extrme violence, drugs, prostitution and explotation are everyday situations. Perhaps many of you saw on tv the last news about the violence in Rio de Janeiro... Narcos have full control of those zones, but fortunately the army is making an effort to control them (they don't admit it, but it's like a pogrom). And note that I didn't say "police", the gov was oblied to send the army to fight that situation. I never thought that this situation could be seen in Argentina, but Buenos Aires is becoming a new Rio, favelization is a fast process (rock cocaine and crime are endemic in poor zones).
    Central America has a similar problem: the gangs known as "maras", formed by very young people (not more than 20-21 years). Their only codes are guns, alcohol, raping, drugs and total lack of respect towards any sign of ethic. They are not related with narcotrafic nor any other organized crime, it's just human trash and control vast zones of the main cities. It's said that this phenomenon reached USA and Canada.
    USA has a bit of this problem too. Harlem, Bronx, Los Angeles and others are cities where insecurity is an everyday issue.
    And if you ask me which is the best example of "trans-oceanic" favelization, no doubt, it's France. Should I elaborate?
    In all of them the ethnic factor seems to be the trigger...

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    Senior Member Carl's Avatar
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    Re: WAR ZONE : UK - South London's "Nihilistic Anarchy"

    Mazo ! I just thought you'd have a good perception of this, and I was right. The fact is, I first saw this kind of thing in Amsterdam - years ago! I came across this darkened street at night which radiated & pulsated something "dark and satanic" , it was a zone of coloured clubs, night bars, drug dens and so on -- it was extremely sinister, made worse I recall by red lighting. Errie, wild & savage!

    Then, later I glimpsed something similar in south London - a poorer area nodoubt, but something of the same heavy alien menace hung over it. I wouldn't go there - especially at night. Now the estates are being taken over drug gangs - with 'families' ( or the remains of) trying to live and co-exist all at the same time. Of course it can't be done! - the entire districts involved are just sinking into a morass of failure and violent crime. Inject the guns - and now even the police are weaponized. They are not perhaps as really poor as the South American favelas - this is , after all, London - and they can always sell their drugs for money or even go out and rob in richer districts. Hateful! - how on earth did we end up with this sort of thing going on. I imagine Paris is just as bad; you know, their riot poice are almost like an army.

    The Tories are being lead by softies at present - I can't see how their brand of neo-kindness can have any meaningful impact on this situation at all. And the Labourites merely seem to encourage the kind of social engineering which tinkers and makes things worse ( - jobs for all the wrong sort of people!). One scam we now see increasingly is to argue that not enough money is being spent on them, these poor lost souls. We must be mad!

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    Senior Member Carl's Avatar
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    Re: WAR ZONE : UK - South London's "Nihilistic Anarchy"

    update 17Feb ( see above!! )

    In a discussion this morning , pundits - one a Professor, were arguing that " more needs to be spent on prevention... on the 'kids' and their parents.....". Meantime, there has been a major police operation with high speed cars and armed officers using vehicle and other intelligence - in an attempt to track down & arrest known 'operatives'. Yes - and then ?? What should be the response to this chaotic state of criminality?

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    Re: WAR ZONE : UK - South London's "Nihilistic Anarchy"

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl
    Mazo ! I just thought you'd have a good perception of this, and I was right. The fact is, I first saw this kind of thing in Amsterdam - years ago! I came across this darkened street at night which radiated & pulsated something "dark and satanic"
    Interesting. My Dad went to Amsterdam in the '70s and he had exactly that impression of it sometimes. An almost heavy, evil oppression over the place.

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    Re: WAR ZONE : UK - South London's "Nihilistic Anarchy"

    --I therefore hasten to add that this was only one part of the city - there were others which were not at all bad; it was of course always a rather tolerant place. But I think it was the contrast there which made this so dramatic. I suspect that it all became a bit uncontrollable once the level of influx increased. But your dating is about right.

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    Re: WAR ZONE : UK - South London's "Nihilistic Anarchy"

    Given the state of things at this present time, and if given the ‘legal’ right to carry arms, how many of us living in the metropolitan areas of the UK would be willing to regularly carry a gun as a means of self defence?

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    Senior Member Mazorquero's Avatar
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    Re: WAR ZONE : UK - South London's "Nihilistic Anarchy"

    There's something I forgot to mention, it doesn't happen in Europe, but it's very common in Southamerica and will appear soon in USA: clientelism. It's the way many politicians choose to win elections, consists in making directly simple favours (like giving a dvd player as a gift) to the poor people, and hey will vote for the politician in the elections. That's why only few want to remove completely those zones, that poverty is the base of some people's richness (such an irony). Desperate immigrants are the easiest target.
    Narcotrafic plays an important role also. Dealers live on purpose in favelas or similar (in big houses, almost palaces) because they have thousands of people who will defend them against the police. Many narcos "own" whole favelas and make favours to the inhabitants, like cars, many and even schools or hospitals. There's a Brazilian movie which shows almost as a documental the life there, I think it's "Cidade de Deus" (City of God).
    As you said, Carl, neither London nor any other Europen city suffers from that situation, and I doubt they will (at least in the near future). The problem is that there is a strong connection, specially in the drug issue. It's not rare to hear about Argentinians and other Latinoamericans being caught in Spain with 20 kg of marihuana or cocaine (or the inverse, Spanish buying in Buenos Aires 20 kg of cocaine). Many of these organizations exist because USA and Europe are "mass customers". I'm not saying that the common European smokes marihuana everyday, but the awful truth is that tons of drugs are produced here, yet a small portion is sold in Southamerica, so where goes the rest? Just think that the Champs Elysés are closed by midnight because it becomes a red zone...

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    Re: WAR ZONE : UK - South London's "Nihilistic Anarchy"

    There is a special task force in the Met to deal with black on black crime?
    Don't let Europe Rule Britannia!

    "If we reunited, then we would be an economic and military powerhouse without peer for centuries to come."-Leofric

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    Senior Member Carl's Avatar
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    Re: WAR ZONE : UK - South London's "Nihilistic Anarchy"

    Quote Originally Posted by RedJack View Post
    There is a special task force in the Met to deal with black on black crime?
    Yes RedJack, its called TRIDENT I believe - it must have good intelligence - and even better armaments! But HELL - why should all this be. I just can't understand why they seem to WANT IT this way! Mazo has a point - it actually suits certain politicians of the lowly kind to have areas of immigrant chaos which they can then "care about"! Otherwise they and their friends would be out of an easy job! After all, its not as though they are achieving anything ; educational standards are ever falling - who needs education if youre dead next week! Such NIHILISM.

    Here's the latest reports -- for what they are worth!:


    From The Sunday Times February 18, 2007

    ""Blair crisis summit on teen gangs

    TONY BLAIR is to announce urgent measures to break up teenage gangs amid the continuing wave of gun violence in British cities.

    As another man was shot dead in London yesterday and three others were injured in two shooting incidents in Manchester, the prime minister called an urgent summit and ordered a review of gun laws, promising to root out youths who are terrorising housing estates.

    Downing Street announced an immediate review of legislation relating to the possession and use of firearms and pledged to rush through (!) new powers for the police.

    A minimum five-year jail sentence for the possession of firearms, which at present applies to those aged 21 and over, will soon be imposed on over18s.

    No 10 also announced an emergency meeting of ministers, police and community leaders to discuss how to respond to the gang killings.

    Three teenagers, James Smarrt-Ford, Michael Dosunmu and Billy Cox, have been killed in London this month alone. A man aged 28 became the latest victim early on Saturday morning when he was gunned down in Hackney, east London.

    No 10 plans a New York-style crackdown, with powers for the police to mount surveillance on the private homes of people suspected of carrying and using firearms.

    Police figures reveal that almost half of those charged with gun murders in London over the past 20 months were teenagers. Figures from Scotland Yard’s Operation Trident team, which investigates “black-on-black” gun crime, show that 15 teenagers have been charged with murder since April 2005, compared with 17 people aged 20

    The murder of Cox, a 15-year-old from Clapham, south London, last week means that three black and mixed-race teenagers have been shot dead in London in the past six weeks, just one fewer than in the previous three years combined.

    The man killed yesterday was shot as he sat in his car just after 5.30am. He had pulled up in his Fiat Punto on Homerton High Street when he is believed to have been fired at by two men.

    Detective Superintendent Gary Richardson, of the Metropolitan police, said the man tried to escape and reversed his vehicle into several parked cars. When he tried to stagger away his attackers chased him and shot him again. They were seen walking calmly from the scene.

    The victim was taken to the nearby Homerton hospital, where he was pronounced dead just before 6am.

    “The victim is in his late twenties so there is nothing to link his death to the south London shootings,” Richardson said.

    Gabriel Ajayi, 50, who lives in a fourth-floor flat overlooking the scene, said he was awoken by the gunshots. “The guy on the ground cried out and the men turned around and came back. One of them knelt down in front of him and fired two shots into his body. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing,” he said.

    In Manchester an 18-year-old black man was shot in the back as he walked along Raby Street in Moss Side at about 9pm on Friday.

    Police said he had been standing outside the Millennium PowerHouse youth centre with friends when shots were fired from two cars driving by.

    The teenager’s injuries are not thought to be life-threatening, although the bullet may still be lodged in his body.

    In a second incident two men, aged 19 and 27, were injured in a drive-by shooting in the Long-sight area of the city at 2.15am yesterday. A passenger in passing silver Mercedes is believed to have shot the men through the window it drove past. A multi-million-pound charity to give black teenagers the chance to escape the cycle of inner-city deprivation and gang violence is to be launched by Baroness Amos, leader of the House of Lords. The Legacy Fund is the brainchild of Trevor Phillips, chairman of the Commission for Equality and Human Rights. ""


    ........ the more trouble, the more money flows their way?? Is this not then some kind of reward system??

    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    'It's little kids going mad. It's relentless. When's it gonna stop?'

    comment in Sunday Telegraph 18/02/2007


    The Clap Town Kids, the Pill Dem Crew... teenagers on the estates of south London embrace a tribal, feral and sometimes short existence.


    'Scare' provides a tour that doesn't bother with the £300,000 two-bedroom flats, or the "Clapham North" pub where the young, fashionable and wealthy enjoy candlelit dinners of wild mushroom tagliatelle with truffle oil, washed down with the occasional £100 bottle of Krug champagne.....

    Instead, the 22-year-old takes us to another world, the one that starts just 30 yards from the gastropub's door...

    "I'll show you Yankee's RIP," says Scare proudly, slipping down an alleyway on south London's Fenwick estate, seeking the graffiti marking his friend's passing three years ago. "They shot him on his own doorstep, left him with a bullet in his face until 6am."

    He pauses, downcast at the sight of fresh paint: "The government just painted over the RIP. They disrespected it, man." Next we stop at the block of flats where Scare was pistol-whipped in 2003.

    Yankee's RIP may be gone, but it has been replaced by plenty of new ones. We pass fluttering police tape, sobbing teenage girls (!), and a house covered by blue tarpaulin, guarded by a grim-faced constable. All over the Fenwick estate, on the spartan basketball court, on the walls that he himself graffiti'd, a new name is being prefaced by the initials RIP: Remer.

    Billy "Remer" Cox, 15, was gunned down in his bedroom on Valentine's Day, the third teenage boy shot dead in south London in 11 days. He followed James Smartt-Ford, 16, shot twice by a gunman in front of dozens of witnesses at the Streatham Ice Rink on February 3, and Michael Dosunmu, 15, shot in the early hours of February 6, as he lay in bed at home in Peckham.

    The murders have sparked unprecedented fear about ever younger gun killers, about gang warfare and "nihilistic anarchy" on London's streets...........

    Scare offers his own commentary on the estate where he grew up: at least Yankee made it into his thirties. "Same thing happened to him as Billy - killed on his doorstep, but it's just getting younger and younger. It's little kids going mad these days. It's relentless. When's it gonna stop, man?"

    There are indeed other RIPs to be pointed out, like the "really good RIP" for The Fatz - Antoine Smith, 24, found dead in an alley in October. A 16-year-old is awaiting trial for murder.

    ( comment : Why is Blair boasting about a new law covering 18 years olds!!! a bit out of touch surely?)

    For Scare, also known as Merice Brown, such landmarks seem as familiar as the marks on his own body, showing where he was stabbed eight times. He grins and removes his shirt. "I told this 16-year-old boy to stop dealing crack. I got rushed by five of them, jumped out a first floor window - Did you see the three in the back, the ones on the spine?"

    Yankee, like too many others, wasn't so lucky. "When they clean the RIPs, we feel hurt, man, but we never forget our lost ones."

    So it seems. Flowers lie by the police cordon, mixed with candles that seem cruelly similar to the ones for Valentine's couples in the gastropub. The text-message- style tributes are signed with "street names" such as "Marster Pizzle". "Fallen soldier," says one of the most prominent. "U're in a beta place. God is lukin afta u now!"

    In the stairwells, teenagers of Billy's age look on. "What's your name and address?" they demand. "Are you police?" One 15-year-old with a diamond stud in his ear talks defiantly of taking 12 GCSEs. "Kids on this estate got futures. I'm gonna go to university....."

    Another takes a different line: "I'm just a gang banger, Clap Town Kids..." He is told to "shut the f--- up".

    A friend of Billy's tells the story they all want to stick to. He grudgingly agrees that Billy had been electronically tagged and was serving a supervision order for burglary. The suggestion he was a drug dealer, though, "is all lies".

    The Clap Town Kids (CTK) isn't a gang, he insists. It's just a youthful way of identifying yourself: "You're from Clapham, you're a Clap Town Kid, innit?" Giggling, they start playfighting; children, in some respects.

    Out of earshot of anyone from the estate, one police officer smiles. "I'm here, primarily to protect you journalists from......" He glances at the teenagers.................
    .
    .
    ( .................... and so on ...................)

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