Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 28

Thread: Teeth unravel Anglo-Saxon legacy

  1. #1
    Senior Member Vetinari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Last Online
    Friday, June 15th, 2012 @ 04:40 AM
    Subrace
    Other
    Country
    United States United States
    Gender
    Politics
    Nationalist
    Religion
    Lovecraftian
    Posts
    244
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Exclamation Teeth unravel Anglo-Saxon legacy

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3514756.stm

    New scientific research adds to growing evidence that the Anglo-Saxons did not replace the native population in England as history books suggest.

    The data indicates at least some areas of eastern England absorbed very few Anglo-Saxon invaders, contrary to the view in many historical accounts.

    Chemical analysis of human teeth from a Medieval cemetery in Yorkshire found few individuals of continental origin.

    Details of the work are described in the scholarly journal Antiquity.

    Researchers from the University of Durham and the British Geological Survey looked at different types of the elements strontium and oxygen in the teeth of 24 skeletons from an early Anglo-Saxon cemetery at West Heslerton, North Yorkshire that spans the fifth to the seventh centuries AD.

    These types, or isotopes, of oxygen in local drinking water vary across Europe and locally within the British Isles.

    The differences are influenced by latitude, altitude, distance from the sea and, to a lesser extent, mean annual temperature.

    This characteristic isotope composition gets set in people's teeth before they are 12 years of age, and can therefore be used by scientists to pinpoint a person's geographical origin.

    Of the 24 individuals sampled, a possible four had oxygen isotope values outside the range for the British Isles. Following improvements in calibration, the group now believes only one individual was from continental Europe.

    The results support the view of other researchers that the introduction of Anglo-Saxon culture and language into Britain did not occur through large-scale replacement of native populations by invading tribes.

    It seems more likely that there was a small-scale immigration from continental Europe and that the existing British population adopted the customs of these outsiders as their own.

    "There are practices that are being adopted from continental Europe. To what extent is that a movement of people (into Britain)? Probably not that much," Dr Paul Budd of the University of Durham told BBC News Online.

    But the team did find evidence for migration into the area from other parts of Britain during the period. While the isotopic composition of Bronze Age remains from West Heslerton matched local drinking water isotope compositions, the early Medieval group were more varied.

    Of the 20 locals, 13 had oxygen isotope signals consistent with an origin west of the Pennines. Dr Budd puts this down to upheaval amongst the British population after the Romans withdrew their armies and administrators from the country in the fifth century AD.

    "At the end of the Roman period there was a huge collapse of a centuries-long organisation, in government and in how the landscape was used. The population moves off elsewhere to exploit the landscape for agriculture."

    The Anglo-Saxons supposedly began migrating into Britain en masse from the fifth century. Their culture and language has long formed the basis for English national identity.

    The findings broadly agree with a large genetic survey of the British Isles published in 2003. The study, led by Professor David Goldstein of University College London, found that the genetic stamp of the Anglo-Saxons on the British Isles was weaker than expected.

    Professor Goldstein attributes less than half of the paternal input in England to Anglo-Saxon migration.

    "I don't think there ever was evidence for a massive population replacement. From the genetics, it's pretty clear there was not complete replacement on the paternal side in England," Professor Goldstein told BBC News Online.

    "Studies like this suggest that the number of individuals that came over is small and even in burial sites that are Anglo-Saxon culturally, they're actually natives."

    However, Dr Neal Bradman, also of University College London, suggested that, since the teeth of immigrants' descendents would take on the isotopic composition of the local area, it was impossible to know whether the burials were of Britons or not without conducting genetic analysis.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Last Online
    Friday, December 8th, 2006 @ 02:25 AM
    Country
    European Union European Union
    Gender
    Posts
    4,101
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4
    Thanked in
    4 Posts

    Post Re: Teeth unravel Anglo-Saxon legacy

    Thanks. Very interesting. If true, that would mean that the replacement was mainly of linguistic nature.

    I am not sure how well this correspond with what kind of physical types are found in England. According to Coon the "Germanic type" is in minority.

    Otherwise I have also read studies that the English are genetically mostly similar to the Danes, which is where the Angles came from.

  3. #3
    Sideways to the Sun
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Milesian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Last Online
    Thursday, September 18th, 2008 @ 04:55 PM
    Subrace
    Atlantid
    Location
    Aileach
    Gender
    Occupation
    Rebel
    Politics
    Anti-Neophilia
    Religion
    Traditional Catholicism
    Posts
    2,745
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    6
    Thanked in
    6 Posts

    Post Re: Teeth unravel Anglo-Saxon legacy

    If the isotopes only get into teeth under the age of 12, then would it be correct to say that we would only expect to find "continental levels" in those of first generation adults and children over 12 (a small percentage)?
    That would then mean any children arriving under 12 years old and any 2nd generation Angles or Saxons would be indistinguishable from the native populations which might account for the apparantly few individuals of "continental origin"

  4. #4
    Senior Member Angelcynn Beorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Last Online
    Thursday, March 1st, 2012 @ 07:34 PM
    Ethnicity
    English
    Subrace
    Anglo-Saxon
    Country
    England England
    State
    Essex Essex
    Location
    London
    Gender
    Politics
    National Capitalist
    Religion
    Protestant
    Posts
    867
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Post Re: Teeth unravel Anglo-Saxon legacy

    Good point Milesian. I dont really see how oxygen isotopes in the teeth are relevant to the mass immigration vs cultural elite debate at all. Surely, if oxygen isotopes ratios are solely dependant on local drinking water, then 2nd generation negro, asian or other immigrants would also be indistinguishable from native British people too.
    I am Ripper... Tearer... Slasher... Gouger.
    I am the Teeth in the Darkness, the Talons in the Night.
    Mine is Strength... and Lust... and Power!
    I AM BEOWULF!

  5. #5
    Sideways to the Sun
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Milesian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Last Online
    Thursday, September 18th, 2008 @ 04:55 PM
    Subrace
    Atlantid
    Location
    Aileach
    Gender
    Occupation
    Rebel
    Politics
    Anti-Neophilia
    Religion
    Traditional Catholicism
    Posts
    2,745
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    6
    Thanked in
    6 Posts

    Post Re: Teeth unravel Anglo-Saxon legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamopy
    Good point Milesian. I dont really see how oxygen isotopes in the teeth are relevant to the mass immigration vs cultural elite debate at all. Surely, if oxygen isotopes ratios are solely dependant on local drinking water, then 2nd generation negro, asian or other immigrants would also be indistinguishable from native British people too.

    Hehehe! Yeah, that's true. It wouldn't suprise me if the Multi-Cults tried to convince us they were actually native Britons someday due to isotope levels in their teeth

  6. #6
    Senior Member Vetinari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Last Online
    Friday, June 15th, 2012 @ 04:40 AM
    Subrace
    Other
    Country
    United States United States
    Gender
    Politics
    Nationalist
    Religion
    Lovecraftian
    Posts
    244
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Post Re: Teeth unravel Anglo-Saxon legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Volksdeutscher
    Otherwise I have also read studies that the English are genetically mostly similar to the Danes, which is where the Angles came from.
    But this would probably mean that the English are largely descended from the Danish Vikings and not from the Angles, Saxons and Jutes.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Last Online
    Sunday, February 25th, 2007 @ 10:29 AM
    Subrace
    nordiſch-weſtiſch
    Location
    Deutſchland
    Gender
    Family
    Single
    Politics
    Volk und Raſſe
    Posts
    1,628
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5
    Thanked in
    5 Posts

    Post Re: Teeth unravel Anglo-Saxon legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Vetinari
    But this would probably mean that the English are largely descended from the Danish Vikings and not from the Angles, Saxons and Jutes.
    The Jutes were from the northern part of the Danish peninsula. the Angles covered ca. Schleswig-Holstein (a region there is still named today Angeln) and parts of Denmark north of that.

    Also, a highest degree of similarity of the English as whole with Danes at whole needn't mean that thee is no similarity with north-west German areas...

    Last edited by Nordgau; Thursday, March 18th, 2004 at 03:11 PM.
    Man ſei Held oder Heiliger. In der Mitte liegt nicht die Weisheit, ſondern die Alltäglichkeit.

    SPENGLER

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Last Online
    Friday, December 8th, 2006 @ 02:25 AM
    Country
    European Union European Union
    Gender
    Posts
    4,101
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4
    Thanked in
    4 Posts

    Post Re: Teeth unravel Anglo-Saxon legacy

    Angles and Saxons were from Denmark and the part of North Western Germany that border Denmark.

    The northern part of Sønderjylland was rejoined with Denmark in 1920.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vetinari
    But this would probably mean that the English are largely descended from the Danish Vikings and not from the Angles, Saxons and Jutes.

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Last Online
    Saturday, April 28th, 2018 @ 05:23 AM
    Ethnicity
    Katarinensische
    Subrace
    Dinarid
    Gender
    Age
    42
    Family
    Single adult
    Posts
    1,243
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Post Re: Teeth unravel Anglo-Saxon legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Vetinari
    But this would probably mean that the English are largely descended from the Danish Vikings and not from the Angles, Saxons and Jutes.

    The article I posted in Genetics shows the same

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Last Online
    Wednesday, April 7th, 2004 @ 10:34 PM
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Location
    Picture City
    Gender
    Occupation
    Finance & Accounting
    Politics
    misanthropic redneck
    Posts
    185
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post Re: Teeth unravel Anglo-Saxon legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Euclides
    The article I posted in Genetics shows the same
    I agree with your findings.
    My question is (since teeth came up in the thread), since the English are known for dental problems, is this also found in the Vikings that you point to here?
    O.A.
    Norman-Cimmerian

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Anglo-Saxon Quotes
    By Ediruc in forum History
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: Friday, September 17th, 2010, 06:42 PM
  2. Teeth Unravel Anglo-Saxon Legacy
    By BeornWulfWer in forum England
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: Tuesday, August 25th, 2009, 10:48 PM
  3. Teeth Unravel Anglo-Saxon Legacy
    By The Blond Beast in forum Anthropogeny & Ethnogenesis
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Wednesday, March 17th, 2004, 10:43 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •