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Thread: Persian, English, German and Dutch compared

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    Lightbulb Persian, English, German and Dutch compared

    It's some sort of a small, and quite basic (at this stage), linguistics study I started.






    It's a start, please let me know what you think of it!

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    Re: Study: Persian, English, German and Dutch compared. (2007)

    Looks interesting. How about a nice layout in HTML as an alternative to PDF? And those file-hosting sites can be pretty irritating.

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    Sv: Re: Study: Persian, English, German and Dutch compared. (2007)

    You might be interested in this
    as well as this:
    Name:  indoeuro.jpg
Views: 65
Size:  148.8 KB

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    Re: Study: Persian, English, German and Dutch compared. (2007)

    I've noticed I switched some colors accidentally in the PDF, but errors like those will be fixed in the next revision/update of the paper.

    Feel free to post suggestions, point out mistakes, errors or even theories (i.e. alternative etymologies). In the future I might expand the study with other languages as well.


    Enlil, I think I have it already but thanks for attaching it! Too bad it only lists Gothic as one East Germanic language, while there are many more (like Langobardian/Winnilean, Burgundian, etc.) and also more Iranic languages, like Mzandarani.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stainawarijaz View Post
    Looks interesting. How about a nice layout in HTML as an alternative to PDF? And those file-hosting sites can be pretty irritating.
    Thanks and I'll try to work on a better layout in the future. As for hosting, I agree it's not perfect, but I'm not sure what I'm going to do about it yet; this worked well because I also posted this thread on other forums and on my weblog.


    ___________________________________

    Here's somewhat of a FAQ about me and this thread based on questions I got at Occidental Dissident.
    Why do you study so many foreign languages? How many do you know? You're Dutch, right?
    Yes, I'm Dutch. If I was Persian I wouldn't be ashamed to tell either. I do understand your question, more people have asked me this, and I'd have probably asked the same question if I came across someone like myself as Persian is not a very common language to learn or to even be interested; but that's perhaps what has drawn me to it in the first place!

    As for the reason why I know and learn [so many] languages: Well, because I find languages very interesting and very telling of peoples and mentality, languages go very deep; multi-culturalists, miscegenators, etc. will always tell you that ‘language and ethnicity’ (or language and race) are unrelated, but I'd like to hear how it is that Persian still has expressions like خیلی خوب [xeyli xub; very good] that almost sounds like it came directly from the Dutch "heel goed" or vice versa. Aside that, it broadens the horizon, sharpens my mind and increases overall understanding. It also helps me with finding etymologies and seeying new links and relations. I find it almost magical how I can now understand and read things I a few years ago couldn't even guessed what it meant...

    The fact that a language like Persian - mostly due to unawareness and very dominant geopolitics - is not widely recognized as Indo-European, (geographically) far away from us and - currently, due to the political situation - almost controversial made it even more interesting for me. There's also some pragmatic reasoning behind this, since I can now read and understand quite a bit of Persian - while learning and improving in the process - I can also read and watch/listen to source articles, broadcasts, etc. from the Iranian media and thus not having to rely on the often false and twisted translations that end up in the western media concerning Iran and others parts of that world.

    I have a big interest for languages in general, but my interest for the Persian language itself grew after I've read articles, seen documentaries, books, etc. on historical, linguistic and political issues about Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan. Aside the language and politics, Iran and the greater Iranic realm of ancient also interests me for its ancient Indo-European history and culture. All of this got an extra impulse after president Mahmud Ahmadinežd was ellected and when he dared to say the things no other head of state - aside Mohamad Mahathir of Malaysia, although retired - dared to say. I started with mastering the Perso-Arabic script, I saw it as a challenge and didn't realize I'd be able to learn it that quickly; since I've read so often that the Arabic script has long been the cause for the high illiteracy in nations that used the Arabic script. Turkey, under Atatrk, abolished its own Ottoman Perso-Arabic derived script for this very reason.

    After mastering the script, I only wanted to know more and more. I then started to find out how incredibly Indo-European a great deal of the lexicon is, and how a lot of it even resembles Germanic and Slavic languages.

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    Re: Study: Persian, English, German and Dutch compared. (2007)

    Thanks Aistulf. I can need them for the Uni in a few months, since i'm studying Linguistics and Germanistics.




    Gru,
    Boche
    "We Germans fear God, but nothing else in the world; and already that godliness is it, which let us love and foster peace."
    - Otto von Bismarck, 1888

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    Re: Study: Persian, English, German and Dutch compared. (2007)

    Out of curiosity...

    Why is it necesarry to post an article about Persian on a forum dedicated to preserve Germanic culture?

    Regardless that there are linquistic connections, it is bunch of people on which Europeans, an Germanics in general, have nothing in common with. A few related words dont say a thing!

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    Re: Study: Persian, English, German and Dutch compared. (2007)

    Quote Originally Posted by saxonian knight View Post
    Out of curiosity...

    Why is it necesarry to post an article about Persian on a forum dedicated to preserve Germanic culture?

    Regardless that there are linquistic connections, it is bunch of people on which Europeans, an Germanics in general, have nothing in common with. A few related words dont say a thing!
    There is a connection since germanics have traveled to Persia and lived there, which is the explenation of the linguistic connection with some words which are adopted into persian language. It's everywhere like this.

    Germans have adopted french words too. English have adopted many latin words. etc etc.




    Gru,
    Boche
    "We Germans fear God, but nothing else in the world; and already that godliness is it, which let us love and foster peace."
    - Otto von Bismarck, 1888

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    Re: Study: Persian, English, German and Dutch compared. (2007)

    Quote Originally Posted by Boche View Post
    Germans have adopted french words too. English have adopted many latin words. etc etc.
    It should be noted that, in the case of Persian, doxtar is inherited rather than borrowed.

    I was surprised, Aistulf, that you didn't highlight bd, which is identical in both form and meaning to English. I don't know enough of the etymology of the Persian word to know why the identity exists it could be a loanword and they could be false cognates. But when I first encountered that particular Persian word, I was floored.

    Incidentally, I have a friend who looked at word order in subordinate clauses in Persian for his thesis. He found that it works the same as Dutch.

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    AW: Study: Persian, English, German and Dutch compared. (2007)

    empty
    636 A.D Rostam Eran-Sepahbod:

    "Lineage and skill will garner no respect,
    Men will be mutual thieves and have no shame,
    What's hidden will be worse than what is known,
    and stony-hearted kings will seize the throne.
    A misbegotten slave will rule the earth,
    Greatness and lineage will have no worth,
    No one will keep his word

    Then Persians will live together side by side
    with Turks and Arabs, mixed far and wide...
    The three will blur, as if they were the same..."

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    Re: Study: Persian, English, German and Dutch compared. (2007)

    Quote Originally Posted by saxonian knight View Post
    Why is it necesarry to post an article about Persian on a forum dedicated to preserve Germanic culture?
    As you may've noticed, my study is all about Germanic languages, since they're compared with Persian. Aside that, Persian is not some Semitic language, it's Indo-European regardless of the ethno-racial majority of the nation of Iran today.


    Regardless that there are linquistic connections, it is bunch of people on which Europeans, an Germanics in general, have nothing in common with. A few related words dont say a thing!
    Oh but, you're greatly mistaken. Firstly, it aren't a few and secondly, it are very telling words.

    I haven't even delved into the grammar yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by Boche View Post
    There is a connection since germanics have traveled to Persia and lived there, which is the explenation of the linguistic connection with some words which are adopted into persian language. It's everywhere like this.
    I'm not very familiar with this, but very interested; could you tell more about this?


    Quote Originally Posted by Leofric View Post
    I was surprised, Aistulf, that you didn't highlight bd, which is identical in both form and meaning to English.
    Highlighted like in the image you mean? If so, that's merely for ‘preview’ purposes. I made it to arouse people's curiosity so they'd download the PDF and highlighted one particularly striking word.


    Incidentally, I have a friend who looked at word order in subordinate clauses in Persian for his thesis. He found that it works the same as Dutch.
    In modern Persian? Because, as far as I know, in modern Persian it's usually object-subject/agent-verb. But due to its grammatical complexity things can - without all too much trouble - be reordered, and most people will understand it (which is also often the case with the grammar in Slavic languages).


    Skyht, that's extremely fascinating! I see it's not (or not only [?]) modern Persian and it focusses a lot on grammar. I might incorporate that into my study in the future, or refer to it. By the way, who was responsible for that? Do you have the author's name, e-mail and/or the source site?

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