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Thread: [split] The Good and Evil of Abortion

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    Re: Cybersex – is it cheating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Madoc View Post
    When talking about abortion ? Maybe this discussion should be moved to the Free Speech Forum.
    No, I have faith in the good members of Skadi to maintain decorum while discussing the topic. I know the general public tends to get overheated about the issue, but I think we can be above that here.

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    Re: [split] The Good and Evil of Abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Boche View Post
    I'm annoyed by the people who say: "You can't abort, the baby is alive inside the womb."
    People have different views on it. Since i cant remember my time in the womb, i'd say that i was just a lifeform which was feeded by the mother throughout her body. And not a living with feelings and memory.
    Do you have any memories of you first year of life? If not then I guess you were just a lifeform, like a houseplant or mold. Can you remember anything between the ages of 1 and 2? If not then I guess you were not yet a "human". At what point does a fetus/infant become a human being according to your logic? At birth? Is it okay to abort a fetus at six months? Is it okay to murder a day-old infant born three-months premature?

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    Re: [split] The Good and Evil of Abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Madoc View Post
    Is it okay to abort a fetus at six months? Is it okay to murder a day-old infant born three-months premature?
    This is a great pair of questions that I think anyone discussing abortion should have to answer. If they differentiate between the two, then they really have to show why.

    For my part, I treat them the same — I think it's usually wrong to kill either one of them, but I also think there could be cases where the killing of either would be fully justified.

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    Re: [split] The Good and Evil of Abortion

    I can remember circumcision and it was not a pleasent memory. My next memory is my father asking me how old I was and holding up two fingers. Young children can remember and feel pain.

    As for cheating, nobody is perfect and it may be wrong to judge people in absolute terms, but, one should enter a long term relationship with the intention to be faithful and to wake up every morning with that intention.

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    Re: [split] The Good and Evil of Abortion

    My first memory was sitting around with all my millions of brothers and the next thing we knew we were shot up this long tube. It was dark but I started swimming like hell. We were all trying to get to this huge warm orb. I don't know why. It just seemed like the popular thing to do. I guess I won the contest because the next thing I knew, my tail started to disappear and I grew these funny looking arms and legs. I kinda just hung out for about 9 months then they pulled me out of my comfy spot and spanked my ass. I have been pissed off ever since.

    We must secure the existence of Our Volk and a future for Germanic Children.

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    Re: Cybersex – is it cheating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Airmanareiks View Post
    What is your earliest memory?
    Mine is about 6 years old.
    I was 1year and 18days old when my Mother gave birth to my Brother... I can remember everything.

    Perhaps some just have a better memory than others, or perhaps those with worst memories don't have a conscious?

    Hm, I wonder if society should abort you? Cut you up in pieces and then when we're done put the pieces next to each other to see if we removed all of you? We'll even start slow...just for you so that you can really feel those instruments cutting into your flesh.

    A baby does not feel pain at that young of an age. Because it does not have self conscoussness. Self Consciousness or the ability to FEEL pain really does not happen until after infancy. Certainly, a fetus does not feel pain nor does a ant feel pain when you step on it. Should we call one a murder if you kill a insect? Its the same thing because a fetus and an insect do not have self consciousness.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiser View Post
    That is scientifically and clinically proven false. Infants most certainly have developed pain receptors. Therefore they feel pain. And they demonstratively react to the application of pain as evidenced by actual findings. Such as their screaming in the womb as I have witnessed on ultrasound and attempting to curl up and swim away from surgical devices ripping their limbs apart and tearing their intestines and genitalia off.
    Exactly! It has been shown that a fetus reacts and even tries to escape in order to save itself.

    Ironically enough the US actually admits that these fetuses are human life. They go by the right to protect ones privacy under the 14th Amendment. Privacy? So far as I know, no non-entity or animal can invade humans privacy, that would require another human.

    The 14th Amendment then is the right to kill another person or in this case baby, seeing as it would protect the women in her decision to "abort" a child ie Commit Infanticide.

    Another interesting point would be if a pregnant women was attacked and killed. The perpetrator in question would then by law be charged on two counts of murder, one for the women and one for the baby in her womb. True or not?

    In that case, why is that baby not a baby when the mother makes a choice to kill that baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boche View Post
    I'm annoyed by the people who say: "You can't abort, the baby is alive inside the womb."

    People have different views on it. Since i cant remember my time in the womb, i'd say that i was just a lifeform which was feeded by the mother throughout her body. And not a living with feelings and memory.
    Did they or did they not show that babies can recognize things that occurred while they were in the mothers womb?

    I saw a documentary on "life" that looked at the development of a child since conception until the birth of this child. What they did was play certain music to the child while in the mothers womb, when the child was born the baby recognized that specific music which was played. Just like the child recognizes the voice of it's mother as the mother was either talking "to" the baby or with someone else(Seeing as the child can only really decode its own mothers voice).

    Memories or just mere animalistic recognition patterns? Like a dog that recognizes that to sit would equate to getting a doggy treat?

    All those people who are against abortions concerning "humanity" are just indoctrinated by catholic doctrine.
    Now I know why you're against Christianity, it's just a little bit to humane. How "shocking".

    Same goes also for those sick neo-christians who say that extremly diseased babies by birth shouldnt be put to eternal sleep.
    Later they mostly die in their extreme disease situations anway and jsut have suffered more. Of course the baby can't decide. But i would feel bad as parent to let it live and die after a few months of pain and suffering.
    This I can agree with, more or less.

    And at all, the woman may only decide if it will be aborted or not, since she has to carry it out.

    Gruß,
    Boche
    I don't agree with this, seeing as women in general can't even make proper choices when it comes to something as simple as applying make-up onto their plastic faces.

    Who on earth would give a women the right to make a choice over the well-being of a living entity?

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    Re: Cybersex – is it cheating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Airmanareiks View Post
    Calling the Kettle black. You started the name calling by deriding my education "sophmoric" which justifies to assume that you are a Jianist or Jesus lover based on your morality. But calling someone a Jesus lover is not name calling. Its the same as if a Jesus lover called me a "pagan" or a "heathen". You may be offended by the name, but do not believe Jesus was "christ" being he never existed. Jesuits or Jesus lovers is how I view what you call "christianity" but like they don't call me an Aryanist, a Odinists, a panentheist, which is an accurate description of my religion, I do not have to call them by THEIR prefer appelation. Its not name calling but a descriptive view, which another thread would be more appropriate to debate the issue.
    First, I never called you names. I said that your unscientific statements were sophomoric. They still are.

    Second, I never brought religion into this debate. You did. You have no idea my religious beliefs. Those here on Skadi who have seen my posts know that I place Race above religion and nationality every time. In fact, it has been mainly christians who have been offended by some of my statements in the past. Funny you should call me a jesus lover.

    Besides, you are even historically wrong on the existance of jesus.


    Quote Originally Posted by Airmanareiks View Post
    Where are the dinosaurs now?
    They are extinct like everyone is going to be in the future (may take thousands of years but it will happen due to exponential growth of populations and civilizations which consume energy).
    What in the world are you arguing now? That the dinosaurs went extinct because they did not have enough abortions? Overpopulation has never been a credible scientific hypothesis for the extinction of the dinosaurs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airmanareiks View Post
    Do you know that the oceans are rising every year?
    Do you know that the earths tempature is rising?
    The ocean is not rising in Northern Germany. It is lowering. It has been lowering for hundreds of years now. How do you explain that? And as I said before, the planet was warmer long before man stepped onto the scene. How do you explain these global warming/cooling cycles over these eons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Airmanareiks View Post
    At some point, due to overheating (humans emit 60 watts of power just living, plus consumtion of fuel) and destroying oxygen resources (diminshing ratio of heat consumption to oxygen generation) LIFE will be destroyed, unless you stop:

    Population Growth (you first need to find a sustainable carrying capacity. What is the number? The earth's carrying capacity may only be 100 million). You may have to drastically reduce the population from 4 billion to 100 million to save the planet.
    Hahahaha. Now human body heat is the problem. What a joke.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airmanareiks View Post
    If everyone thought as you did, Life will be destroyed. That is a fact.
    Your opinions are far from "fact" my friend. And you have no clue how I think on environmental concerns or population control based upon my advocation of not TORTURING unborn babies during abortions. I simply stated that for or against abortion, we as noble Germanic Volk can come up with at least as humane treatment of our offspring as we as a society expect to treat a mad dog being put down with euthanasia. Where are you fabricating all these other accusations from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Airmanareiks View Post
    Back to your pain theory.

    You feel more pain knocking your knee against a table then a 1 month year old "fetus" feels.
    Documented scientific research as to pain receptors being present and reaction to pain is not a "theory". And what is a "month year old fetus" anyway? Never heard of one. What is your reference to a knee being bumped against a table pain threshold versus the pain felt by an unborn baby getting ripped apart or its flesh melted off with saline solution? I have actually watched the reaction of babies being aborted on ultrasound monitors and their reactions. What is your credibility here? Give us some empirical data to back up your outlandish claims. They insult the Germanic intellect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airmanareiks View Post
    According to your Jianist theory, it is worse to knock your knee against a table then destroy a non reflective being like an insect. A rat probably has more self consciousness then a 1 month fetus. So you would outlaw the killing of rats in the world (no more insecticides or exterminators). See how your view leads to a serious wasteland. Pacifism is obviously the view. Being I don't see killing lower life forms or even (enemies) wrong, I have no problem with stepping on ants, the killing of rodents in houses, killing fetus, nor killing of human enemies when it is JUSTIFED. Thus, there is no serious sin created if it is justifed by evaluating the future costs/benefits of those actions. The greater good.
    Wow! Now I am a Jianist pacifist who would have the world overran with rats according to you? Where are you coming up with this nonsense? If it will make you feel any better, if I were elected Kaiser, I would gladly authorize your euthanization for failing to grasp basic debate, reason, logic, and scientific facts.

    For the "greater good" of course.

    We must secure the existence of Our Volk and a future for Germanic Children.

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    Re: [split] The Good and Evil of Abortion

    My Opinion on Abortion is this, Since I am a male, I do not support it. Primarily because it has been used as a weapon against men in regards to reproduction.

    But here is an option, since it has already been assigned as a right for women, the right should be universal, IE men should have the same right.

    As far as overpopulation, being a problem; that is simply ridiculous.
    With the current advances in technology, and the potential for the opening up for space flight in the next few centuries, there is no upper limit no human population. If human society cant or will not develop these technologies they deserve extinction.

    The future belongs to those who are brave enough to seize it and move forward.

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    Post Re: [split] The Good and Evil of Abortion

    Primarily because it has been used as a weapon against men in regards to reproduction.
    How??

    But here is an option, since it has already been assigned as a right for women, the right should be universal, IE men should have the same right.
    Men should have the right to force women they impregnate to have abortions against their will?

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    Re: [split] The Good and Evil of Abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Leofric View Post
    This is a great pair of questions that I think anyone discussing abortion should have to answer. If they differentiate between the two, then they really have to show why.

    For my part, I treat them the same — I think it's usually wrong to kill either one of them, but I also think there could be cases where the killing of either would be fully justified.
    Can you give a few examples of such cases?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lissu View Post
    Considering abortion, a fetus becomes a human being with human rights after it's capable of surviving outside the womb. But womens rights to decide the fate of the fetus ends at 14 weeks. If there's some malformations of the fetus, then it's fate can be decided even later.
    Why 14 weeks and not 13 or 15?

    I just wonder if this is any less arbitrary than legislation saying the age of consent shall be 14, 15, or 16 years.
    .

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