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Thread: R1a1 in Great Britain, What is Your Theory?

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    R1a1 in Great Britain, What is Your Theory?

    What would be your theory on R1a1 arriving in Norther England. My lines run into England fairly deep. Yet only 1/10 males in England are R1a1.
    • Soldiers brought by the Roman Army's?
    • Slaves traded by the Normans or Vikings
    • Independently migrated from Gaul?
    • Viking mixed Bloodlines?
    • Trade routes
    Last edited by Alpine Storm; Tuesday, January 30th, 2007 at 07:17 PM.
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    Re: R1a1 in GB, what is your theory?

    Well according to the National Geographic Genographic project I am R1a. Records say that my paternal line supposedly came from the Southern Netherland to the Americas way back in the mid 1600s with the Dutch West India Company. What is interesting though is I'm getting the most exact 12 marker matches with people from Norway. I don't think this area of research is fully developed though it will be interesting to follow over the next several years. But still the results make me wonder.

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    Re: R1a1 in GB, what is your theory?

    IMO R1a comes from Norway vikings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine Storm View Post
    What would be your theory on R1a1 arriving in Norther England. My lines run into England fairly deep. Yet only 1/10 males in England are R1a1.
    • Soldiers brought by the Roman Army's?
    • Slaves traded by the Normans or Vikings
    • Independently migrated from Gaul?
    • Viking mixed Bloodlines?
    • Trade routes
    Quote Originally Posted by some_one_number_one View Post
    IMO R1a comes from Norway vikings.
    In Northern England's case, the Polak is likely to be right. Gaul is a bit far away and too dilute itself in R1a for it to have leaked naturally from there to explain any more than a smidgen of the proportion in the North Country, though it's not impossible from when the Parisi first settled in Yorkshire. The Roman Army on the Wall was largely composed of Germans, though their descendants would have significantly Brythonicised by the time the Angles got there, to suffer the fate of much of old Britannia's Y chromosome carriers in the struggles of the time. The Angles would have naturally increased it, but looking at one Y chromosome set of data I have for the British Isles, the strikingly high amount on the Isle of Man would make the Norse origin most likely.

    I'll have to get round to sampling mine one day... Is it cheaper yet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu View Post
    In Northern England's case, the Polak is likely to be right. Gaul is a bit far away and too dilute itself in R1a for it to have leaked naturally from there to explain any more than a smidgen of the proportion in the North Country, though it's not impossible from when the Parisi first settled in Yorkshire. The Roman Army on the Wall was largely composed of Germans, though their descendants would have significantly Brythonicised by the time the Angles got there, to suffer the fate of much of old Britannia's Y chromosome carriers in the struggles of the time. The Angles would have naturally increased it, but looking at one Y chromosome set of data I have for the British Isles, the strikingly high amount on the Isle of Man would make the Norse origin most likely.

    I'll have to get round to sampling mine one day... Is it cheaper yet?
    I've been digging deep into R1a ever since I found out I belonged to that haplogroup. Determining whether your R1a lineage is Nordic, Slavic, Indic or Ashkenazi depends on the allele values, not just the R1a grouping. The English and Slavic R1a modal haplotypes do share a common ancestor, but since the alleles are three steps off, that common ancestor existed nearly 150 generations ago. So, if you belong to the English R1a haplogroup, chances are far greater that your paternal ancestry is Nordic than Slavic.

    As to the price, I got both my y-DNA and mt-DNA tested at FTDNA for around $150.
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    I would reckon that R1a in England comes from multiple sources as Oswiu mentioned--Norse, Angles & other vaious continentals serving the Empire in different capacities.

    Also, it could be considered that 'some' R1a arrived in Britain much earlier--during the mesolithic in particular when sealevels were much lower and much of what is now the North Sea was dry land thus aiding in the westward movement of this haplogroup.

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    By the way, we have a proof that R1a was present among Central German Corded Ware people from Eulau, which makes the assumption that R1a was a common, if not the most common and important, y-DNA haplogroup among early Indeuropeans, since it has been found in ancient ice mummies from the Eastern Indoeuropean tribes already, now proven in the other major group in Central Europe, the Corded Ware group.

    Therefore most R1a carriers of England might be, in my opinion, descendents of Central European Indoeuropean male lines, in most cases, for England, via Norway obviously, I dont see much of an alternative actually, if arguing with the most probable origin...
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    Excavating Past Population Structures by Surname-Based Sampling: The Genetic Legacy of the Vikings in Northwest England

    http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/-sczstev...ey_summary.pdf



    Proof of Liverpool's Viking past

    They used historical documents, including a tax register from the time of Henry VIII, to identify surnames common in the region. They then recruited 77 male volunteers with "original" surnames, and looked for a genetic signature of Viking ancestry on the Y chromosome. They report in Molecular Biology and Evolution that a Y chromosome type, R1a, common in Norway, is also very common among men with original surnames.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/de...jamesranderson

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    I am intrigued to find my R1a1 ancestors origin. My English family comes from the Midlands of England, not from the North.
    Maybe we are from Roman soldiers or slaves?
    But my R1a1 cousins are mostly English.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blood eagle View Post
    I am intrigued to find my R1a1 ancestors origin. My English family comes from the Midlands of England, not from the North.
    Look up the Five Boroughs, mate.

    The eastern Midlands were HEAVILY Anglicised, then as HEAVILY Scandinavianised.

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