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Thread: R1a1 in Great Britain, What is Your Theory?

  1. #11
    Senior Member Eburos's Avatar
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    Thank you, I will look this up. I am aware that this area was part of the Danelaw. My name is Anglo-Saxon traces to around Buckinghamshire.

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    Senior Member rainman's Avatar
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    Rather interesting that given the history of Britain it is one of the most ethnically mixed nationalities of Europe yet one of the most dominant. Similar can be said for Germany. England is an ethnic soup but luckily has been all Aryan until recently.

    I've sort of though maybe this is genetically the ideal scenario. Relative isolation combined with relative incursions of outside blood as opposed to total isolation or total mixing. Curiously, for example, Japan has a similar history being similarly an Island off the coast. Perhaps a bit more isolationists, but anyway they too are the regional superpower and most advanced folk of their area.

    You had the picts and possibly earlier peoples, themselves the results of several migrations. Then the Celts and Romans. Then various Germanic migrations.

    I guess I'm off topic. Anyway I know people really should be rooted in their history but I consider race something alive and today. If two different tribes combine and form a new tribe that lives for a thousand years and you are born into it you are part of the tribe you are born into. Not some ancestor's tribe from 1,000 years ago. Similarly I don't think you can be half this or half that. You are 100% of one group. You are one human being. What I mean is even if you are mixed then you are 100% mixed race- that is of one group. You don't half check the white box and half check the black box, you entirely check a whole new one. So I like to know about my history but mainly I like to look at who I am now, what my parents were and my folk community that is alive today.

    So many of us lack that folk community.

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    Senior Member Eburos's Avatar
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    I appreciate your opinion on such matters Rainman. I feel no guilt at all trying to unravel the history of my family. I don't think that I am looking only at my past, and I hope your comment was not directed to me.

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    Senior Member rainman's Avatar
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    No. lol I don't mean to feel guilt. I just mean it gets confusing when you try to get into such very minute specific details. Like someone saying "What am I? I'm trying to see- my ancestors came from England but somewhere there is the one gene that maybe came from Norway..." It's just what you are is what you are today it doesn't need to be buried in the past somewhere.

    I think its great looking into your past. It's good to be balanced- know where you came from, where you are at and where you are going. :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by rainman View Post
    Rather interesting that given the history of Britain it is one of the most ethnically mixed nationalities of Europe yet one of the most dominant. Similar can be said for Germany. England is an ethnic soup but luckily has been all Aryan until recently.
    I don't think we're especially peculiar in that respect at all. Some that seem to have less going on in their history, ethnically-speaking, might well make up for it in their prehistory. As for 'dominance', nearly everyone on the continent has taken their turn at that rota, some time or other.

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    Senior Member Eburos's Avatar
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    Well, Oswiu I do have one match in the ysearch database for a Dane with a genetic distance of 3.
    Most of my closest matches are with other English surnames and quite a few Austrian, and former Austrian/Czechoslovakians, and also a few Pomeranians.
    It seems that a few of my distant English cousins came from East Anglia.
    Perhaps there is a heavy Danish or Anglian R1a1 connection in England today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blood eagle View Post
    I do have one match in the ysearch database for a Dane with a genetic distance of 3.
    A genetic distance of three means that your common ancestor is very very far out (around 100 generations if I remember correctly). I'm R1a as well and I have ysearch matches amongst North Indians and Uyghurs at distances of three.
    "Ocean is more ancient than the mountains, and freighted with the memories and the dreams of Time."
    -H.P. Lovecraft

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychonaut View Post
    A genetic distance of three means that your common ancestor is very very far out (around 100 generations if I remember correctly). I'm R1a as well and I have ysearch matches amongst North Indians and Uyghurs at distances of three.
    Yes, a distance of 3 in 12 dys markers is a long shot for being a Dane, but my family had lived in England since before the Norman invasion, at least a 1000 years, "some of the first recorded surnames in England".

    My closest matches of 0,1,2 genetic distances are all fellow English and Scottish surnames, excluding a few at 2 from Austria/Czechoslovakia, and quite a few Prussians at 3.

    I have a genetic distance of 4 to a few Swedes and 5 to a few Norwegians.
    My matches for India are gentic distance of 5 and 6.

    Through the powers of deduction I could then Hypothesize that my ancestors did not enter England through Norway or Sweden, but through either Danish or the Angles of Schleswig-Holstein.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa View Post
    By the way, we have a proof that R1a was present among Central German Corded Ware people from Eulau, which makes the assumption that R1a was a common, if not the most common and important, y-DNA haplogroup among early Indeuropeans, since it has been found in ancient ice mummies from the Eastern Indoeuropean tribes already, now proven in the other major group in Central Europe, the Corded Ware group.

    Therefore most R1a carriers of England might be, in my opinion, descendents of Central European Indoeuropean male lines, in most cases, for England, via Norway obviously, I dont see much of an alternative actually, if arguing with the most probable origin...
    Only in the Northern (Baltic-Slavic, Germanic, and "Eastern" Celtic) and Eastern ((Indo Aryan) "Indo-Europan peoples". Although I agree the proto-IndoEuropeans would have had to be carry R1a.

    Indo-Europeanization is mostly Cultural and not physical. For instance Western Europe does not carry R1a in the least. Thus it is safe to say they don't physically descend form the proto-Indo Europeans.

    And Anthropological data indicates that Northern Europeans (the corded ware peoples) do not physically descend from the Kurgan folk either. Atleast they carry R1a though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Infamous View Post
    Only in the Northern (Baltic-Slavic, Germanic, and "Eastern" Celtic) and Eastern ((Indo Aryan) "Indo-Europan peoples". Although I agree the proto-IndoEuropeans would have had to be carry R1a.

    Indo-Europeanization is mostly Cultural and not physical. For instance Western Europe does not carry R1a in the least. Thus it is safe to say they don't physically descend form the proto-Indo Europeans.

    And Anthropological data indicates that Northern Europeans (the corded ware peoples) do not physically descend from the Kurgan folk either. Atleast they carry R1a though.
    So who does then?

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