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Thread: Sparta, the First National Socialist State

  1. #61
    Senior Member Fraxinus Excelsior's Avatar
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    Post Re: Nazi Germany & Spartan Greece

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenic Eagle
    Yes, may be so manilla gorilla, it is possible that most of what i ve read and heard about Germany and German history do come from crap sources, BUT I DID NOT COME OUT AND STATE THAT GERMAN SOLDIERS WERE FAGGOTS, although this story also exists, as well as that Hitler was gay, etc.., get it gorilla?
    Sure do, Hellenic Eagle. I never said you stated they were homosexual; I was implying that misinformation, in respect to subject matter, knows no bounds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenic Eagle
    Germany was very well armed, possesing weapons of superior technology never before seen.
    These weapons didn't arrive until the tide of war was already against the Axis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenic Eagle
    I am not a fool gorilla
    I never said that.

    But, back to "Nazi Germany & Spartan Greece"; the Spartans were probably the most adept soldiers ever, while the Germans had the potential to be the best of their respective era; the two major things holding the Germans down were: the lack of effective military leadership and supply problems.

    "Eugenics", according to www.dictionary.com, "is the study of hereditary improvement of the human race by controlled selective breeding."

    It can be said that both Spartan Greece and Nazi Germany applied eugenics as a means to better their respective nations.

    That's my take on the subject.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: Nazi Germany & Spartan Greece

    Dwelling on Eugenics for a moment; the liberals and the Christians deplore Eugenics, as we know, and they often paint a 'nightmare scenario', claiming that only 'blond-haired blue-eyed' clones would be produced or some such.
    They commonly evoke what they call 'Nazi Germany' to scare opinion away from support of Eugenics.

    But looking far into the future, it is possible that armies could be completely cloned in the future is it not?
    Excellent human fighting machines could be bred en masse in laboratorys and ordered to go into enemy territories after they have been bombed, to win the war on the ground.

    This would reintroduce the warrior caste as a cloned species.

    Who here objects to this possibility, and on what grounds?
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

  3. #63
    Account Inactive Hellenic Eagle's Avatar
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    Post Re: Nazi Germany & Spartan Greece

    Quote Originally Posted by magilla gorilla
    It can be said that both Spartan Greece and Nazi Germany applied eugenics as a means to better their respective nations.

    That's my take on the subject.
    I am forced to disagree. Eugenics was not the most important factor in Spartan life. It was simply applicable due to neccessity, it was not applied in order to "better" their nation. The most important aspect of Sparta was a militarily disciplined devotion to their nation-state and the military honour and not fear of death that derived from this devotion.

    "Eugenics" as known today have not any kind of connection to Sparta. Infants that did not qualify to become strong soldiers were not of any use to Spartans. Warriors were the only citizents that would survive and that Sparta needed to survive. Simple as that. Just an outcome of necessity of their time and place. There is no proof that a "eugenics" program was applied in the society, apart from the obvious "primitive" one i mentioned above. Honour, Devotion to Sparta, Supreme War skills, Not regard for ones own life, these were the Spartan virtues, not "eugenics"!

  4. #64
    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: Nazi Germany & Spartan Greece

    It was reported by other Greek city states that Spartan women were exceptional in thier beauty, and in their STATURE.

    This suggests that Eugenics also had an aesthetic value as well as a military one.

    Therefore, Eugenics was of the first importance to the Greeks because human BEAUTY was to them, the ultimate value.

    And how do you create human beauty?
    By good-breeding.

    A Eugenic society can be discerned by the quality of its women. If they are tall, with good physiques, and handsome features, then you can be assured that a form of Eugenics is in operation.

    As Byron wrote, "I can't abide a dumpy woman".
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

  5. #65
    Account Inactive Hellenic Eagle's Avatar
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    Post Re: Nazi Germany & Spartan Greece

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    It was reported by other Greek city states that Spartan women were exceptional in thier beauty, and in their STATURE.

    This suggests that Eugenics also had an aesthetic value as well as a military one.

    Therefore, Eugenics was of the first importance to the Greeks because human BEAUTY was to them, the ultimate value.

    And how do you create human beauty?
    By good-breeding.

    A Eugenic society can be discerned by the quality of its women. If they are tall, with good physiques, and handsome features, then you can be assured that a form of Eugenics is in operation.

    As Byron wrote, "I can't abide a dumpy woman".

    My friend im sorry to say what i m about to say, cause your interest in philosophy makes me respect you especially, more than the avegare Skadi member, but this message of yours is what i consider to be a classic crap source about Greeks and Greece.

    In short, Eugenics can be whatever you want it to be. Just leave Greece out of it.....you are too ignorant...

    I will only make a couple of key points, who knows , maybe you will finally learn something:

    And how do you create human beauty?
    By good-breeding.
    This you could say, my simple minded friend if we were talking about cattle beauty. Yes cattle beauty can be created through good cattle breeding. Human beauty is a different thing.

    A Eugenic society can be discerned by the quality of its women
    A society is the Men.

    Concerning women...

    If they are tall, with good physiques, and handsome features
    ...then we are talking about a Hollywood society, from which i am sure you mostly take your ideas and your idols. Do not make the mistake to mix the Greek ideal of beauty with your own Hollywood idea of beauty my sad friends....

  6. #66
    Senior Member Fraxinus Excelsior's Avatar
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    Post Re: Nazi Germany & Spartan Greece

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenic Eagle
    I am forced to disagree. Eugenics was not the most important factor in Spartan life. It was simply applicable due to neccessity, it was not applied in order to "better" their nation. The most important aspect of Sparta was a militarily disciplined devotion to their nation-state and the military honour and not fear of death that derived from this devotion.

    "Eugenics" as known today have not any kind of connection to Sparta. Infants that did not qualify to become strong soldiers were not of any use to Spartans. Warriors were the only citizents that would survive and that Sparta needed to survive. Simple as that. Just an outcome of necessity of their time and place. There is no proof that a "eugenics" program was applied in the society, apart from the obvious "primitive" one i mentioned above. Honour, Devotion to Sparta, Supreme War skills, Not regard for ones own life, these were the Spartan virtues, not "eugenics"!
    If warriors were the more important group of Spartan society, then how was the form of eugenics practiced by Sparta not a way of bettering their nation? Weeding-the-weak-out in order to guarantee the survival of the fittest, sounds like an attempt at nation-bettering.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenic Eagle
    Honour, Devotion to Sparta, Supreme War skills, Not regard for ones own life, these were the Spartan virtues
    Never said they weren't. I agree that these were the most important aspects of Spartan society; but, I was answering the topic question "Nazi Germany & Spartan Greece".

  7. #67
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    Post Re: Nazi Germany & Spartan Greece

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenic Eagle
    This you could say, my simple minded friend if we were talking about cattle beauty. Yes cattle beauty can be created through good cattle breeding. Human beauty is a different thing.
    Are you saying physical characteristics aren't hereditary? :eyes

    A society is the Men.
    Moody's 'society' referred to the community as a whole, which of course includes women.

    ...then we are talking about a Hollywood society, from which i am sure you mostly take your ideas and your idols. Do not make the mistake to mix the Greek ideal of beauty with your own Hollywood idea of beauty my sad friends....
    How does the ancient Greek ideal differ from this? Did they like their women short?

  8. #68
    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: Nazi Germany & Spartan Greece

    Hellenic Eagle; "My friend im sorry to say what i m about to say, cause your interest in philosophy makes me respect you especially, more than the avegare Skadi member, but this message of yours is what i consider to be a classic crap source about Greeks and Greece".

    Moody; I respect you because you are a Greek, and I regard Greek civilisation as one of the greatest achievements of Aryan man.
    However, I am disappointed with the tone of your reply, which seems unnecessarily petulant.
    My ideas on ancient Greece come from reading a whole variety of sources over the years, and of THINKING about them.
    Link referring to Spartan women;
    http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Aege...9/spwomen.html

    Let us all refrain from being too precious about our own national cultures; I quoted Byron for a reason: he was driven out of his own homeland and died fighting for the freedom of Greece from the Turk.

    Anyone care to take up my suggestions some two posts ago re. the wider subject of Eugenics?
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

  9. #69
    Member Razmig's Avatar
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    Post Re: Nazi Germany & Spartan Greece

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    Hellenic Eagle; "My friend im sorry to say what i m about to say, cause your interest in philosophy makes me respect you especially, more than the avegare Skadi member, but this message of yours is what i consider to be a classic crap source about Greeks and Greece".

    Moody; I respect you because you are a Greek, and I regard Greek civilisation as one of the greatest achievements of Aryan man.
    However, I am disappointed with the tone of your reply, which seems unnecessarily petulant.
    My ideas on ancient Greece come from reading a whole variety of sources over the years, and of THINKING about them.
    Link referring to Spartan women;
    http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Aege...9/spwomen.html

    Let us all refrain from being too precious about our own national cultures; I quoted Byron for a reason: he was driven out of his own homeland and died fighting for the freedom of Greece from the Turk.

    Anyone care to take up my suggestions some two posts ago re. the wider subject of Eugenics?
    Last time I checked, the Greeks were not part of the Aryan culture (Irano-Indic region inhabitors).

  10. #70
    Account Inactive Hellenic Eagle's Avatar
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    Post Re: Nazi Germany & Spartan Greece

    Quote Originally Posted by Razmig
    Last time I checked, the Greeks were not part of the Aryan culture (Irano-Indic region inhabitors).
    So which culture's part are Greeks after all, feel free to tell us "Armenian ...hooligan" ...you seem to know so much....

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