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Thread: Sparta, the First National Socialist State

  1. #41
    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: Nazi Germany & Spartan Greece

    It would be good to hear what that viewpoint is in your own words, as the excerpts you typically supply tend to be truncated and out of context leaving us none-the-wiser.

    By Eugenics I mean, in the most general sense, the science which eliminates the inferior specimens of the Species, while at the same time seeking to enhance the superior specimens of the Race.

    Your excerpt doesn't really touch on this.
    It does make some perceptive statements, such as;
    "The ... Church makes bodily and mental culture subservient to morality, whilst modern eugenics makes morality subservient to bodily and mental culture".
    This is true, and implies that the Church is opposed to Eugenics on a MORAL basis, and therefore places morality above Race.

    When the piece talks of "racial poisons", it only gives "alcohol", "venereal disease", "unworthy marriages". This hardly addresses the issue of racial poisons as far as Eugenics is concerned!

    Even when it says "mixed marriages", it doesn't specify what is meant by "mixed" - it doesn't say "mixed-race" marriages: why?

    Again, this is not really what we mean when we describe Eugenics.

    Of course we are against mixed-race marriages/couplings, that should go without saying; the point is, should the inferior be eliminated? - that is the Eugenics question completely avoided here.

    It also mentions restrictions on affinity etc., which are not even in keeping with the kind of Eugenics practiced in the ancient world.

    As for "control of the sex appetite", and "the practice of celibacy" and "a Divinely aided will holding the sensual passion in check" - that is hardly promising to we of the purple glove and the Dionysia!

    Not only is there a lack and rejection of Eugenics in the Christian view, there is also a lack of Bodily Joy.
    We want to breed up, not down.
    Last edited by Moody; Wednesday, March 24th, 2004 at 07:19 PM.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

  2. #42
    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Added Link

    Here is an extra link which may add to an understanding of the connexion between Sparta and N-S;

    http://bks.ark11.net/sparta.htm
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

  3. #43
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    Post Re: Added Link

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    Here is an extra link which may add to an understanding of the connexion between Sparta and N-S;

    http://bks.ark11.net/sparta.htm
    Yeah and theres only one paragraph that even comes close to talking about eugenics, and its analysis is extremely simplistic. I'm not even getting into their weak knowledge of military history and tactics.

    Indeed much of what this article saids about the fighting spirit of the Spartans is the same thing I've been saying as to why I admire them.

  4. #44
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    Post Re: Nazi Germany & Spartan Greece

    Out of all the Greek city states I would say that Sparta was the most infamous, or should I say famous.

    Even though both are millenia apart. I would say that there are plenty of similarities between both Nazi Germany and Spartan Greece.

    Anyways, both Nazi Germany and Sparta used eugenics. They both emphasized a Nordic image I'm thinking since in Spartan Society the Nordids would be first class, and in Nazi Germany more recessive genes were praised. Both they left women out for combat.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: Added Link

    Quote Originally Posted by Pushkin
    Yeah and theres only one paragraph that even comes close to talking about eugenics, and its analysis is extremely simplistic. I'm not even getting into their weak knowledge of military history and tactics.

    Indeed much of what this article saids about the fighting spirit of the Spartans is the same thing I've been saying as to why I admire them.
    Moody; Where did I say the article was about an analysis of Eugenics?
    The article looks at what is the the subject of this thread: Sparta AND National-Socialism!

    I have already given a more detailed source on Eugenics, Roper's essay on 'Ancient Eugenics' which is usually listed in most White Nationalist libraries.
    For the few that haven't read it, I give this link;

    http://www.ety.com/HRP/booksonline/e...s/eugenics.htm

    As for the excerpt given by Pushkin as regards the Christian attitude to Eugenics, we see that by "mixed marriages" they mean "Catholic and non-Catholic"!
    Some Eugenics! - proving yet again that Christianity and Eugenics do NOT mix.

    'Man is something to be Overcome - what have you done to Overcome him?'
    [Nietzsche, TSZ]
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Post Re: Added Link

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    As for the excerpt given by Pushkin as regards the Christian attitude to Eugenics, we see that by "mixed marriages" they mean "Catholic and non-Catholic"!
    Yes and the Orthodox churches and traditional Catholics also ban/discourage racially mixed marriages as well.

    Some Eugenics! - proving yet again that Christianity and Eugenics do NOT mix.
    I believe that was my main argument to begin with.
    Last edited by Moody; Sunday, March 28th, 2004 at 04:22 PM. Reason: removed unnecesary abuse

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    Exclamation Re: Nazi Germany & Spartan Greece

    [QUOTE=Moody Lawless]Excellent links on Sparta, blut-ehre.

    It is a common misconception that Sparta tolerated homosexuality - there is NO evidence for that. Indeed, the Spartan ethos is antipathical to the tolerance of homosexuality seen in other Greek states of the time.

    [QUOTE]




    That still does not change the fact that homosexuality was rampant in the NSDAP, SA, and SS, or the organizations on which the Third Reich had its foundations.


    A very little known and very often ignored fact about the history of Nazi Germany.

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    Post Re: Nazi Germany & Spartan Greece

    Quote Originally Posted by Odin Of Ossetia
    A very little known and very often ignored fact about the history of Nazi Germany.
    Please specify and prove.
    Tolerance is a proof of distrust in one's own ideals. Friedrich Nietzsche


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    Post Re: Nazi Germany & Spartan Greece

    Quote Originally Posted by Odin Of Ossetia
    That still does not change the fact that homosexuality was rampant in the NSDAP, SA, and SS, or the organizations on which the Third Reich had its foundations. A very little known and very often ignored fact about the history of Nazi Germany.
    Indeed. Ernst Rohm, for example, led the SA until Hitler had him assassinated in 1934, and was a homosexual. At first Hitler didn't care about Ernst's sexual orientation, but when the power struggle between the two escalated, it was used against Rohm.
    I find the homosexual disorder quite interesting from a psychological point of view. According to Desmond Morris it is caused by the unnatural living conditions in urban settings; animals in zoos also become homosexual occassionally. The city is a 'human zoo', according to Morris. This, then, leads us back to Sparta; if homosexuality really was rampant in Sparta, this might then have been due to the extreme discipline and collectivism expected from the citizens and the psychological stress this brought with it, which in turn would have caused the homosexual disorder.
    Last edited by Siegfried; Sunday, March 28th, 2004 at 09:26 PM.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: Nazi Germany & Spartan Greece

    Pushkin;"Nietzsche fought Christianity passionately because he looked only at degenerate and outward Christians; as for the Christian religion, he never began to try to understand it." [Nikolai Berdyaev]

    Moody; When it comes to 'understanding', I prefer to go with the facts rather than with opinion;
    "Nietzsche was born and raised in a deeply religious family.
    His father was a pastor, his mother was the daughter of a pastor, both his grandparents were pastors [one of whom he often spent his school vacations with]. Both of his aunts and his parental grandmother, who for most of his upbringing lived with the family, were profoundly pious ...
    Hence Nietzsche's childhood and youth were very pious and Christian. When he began school, he was called 'the little pastor' due to the seriousness and sobriety of his comportment as well as his ability to cite from memory long passages from the Bible ...
    When Nietzsche was 13 years old, he wrote, 'in everything God has safely guided me ... I have firmly determined to serve Him forever ...'
    At school his best subject was religion. At the time of his confirmation Nietzsche appears to have been profoundly pious and religious ...
    When Nietzsche left the Schulpforta school to study at University, he registered for both Theology and Philosophy ..."
    [T.H. Brobjer, University of Uppsala, 'Nietzsche and the Divine', 2000]

    Pushkin also claims that the Christian Church "bans" mixed-race marriages - proof please.

    Odin of Osseita claims that homosexuality was "rampant" in the Third Reich. Proof needed to qualify that statement also. I often hear the Queer Lobby moan of their persecution under Hitler.

    http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Ba...706/apsc03.htm

    Pushkin rejects Eugenics on Christian grounds [he doesn't actually say why Christians are against Eugenics though]. Clearly, Christianity and Eugenics are incompatible, as I said ... THEREFORE ...

    This is why Nietzschean philosophy is closer to National Socialism AND Lacedaemonism.
    Last edited by Moody; Sunday, March 28th, 2004 at 04:20 PM.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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