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Thread: Sparta, the First National Socialist State

  1. #11
    Senior Member Scoob's Avatar
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    Post Re: Nazi Germany & Spartan Greece

    Quote Originally Posted by Pushkin
    I really don't find that funny; what they did to those babies was horrible!

    I admire their military prowess, their discipline, and such. I believe in a Christian Sparta(note: I don't want to hear any Nietzschean nonsense that this is not possible).
    If defective people were culled as newborns, as the ancient Hellenes did (they left them out for wild animals - like the story of Oedipus Tyrannus) - then people wouldn't have to feel so bad for Jerry's Kids. I have sympathy and compassion for handicapped people who are alive now, but I think they live lives that are unneccessarily tough and a burden on society as a whole.

    I am totally for Eugenics.
    "Whatever is done from love always occurs beyond good and evil." - F. Nietzsche

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    Post Re: Nazi Germany & Spartan Greece

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoob
    If defective people were culled as newborns, as the ancient Hellenes did (they left them out for wild animals - like the story of Oedipus Tyrannus) - then people wouldn't have to feel so bad for Jerry's Kids. I have sympathy and compassion for handicapped people who are alive now, but I think they live lives that are unneccessarily tough and a burden on society as a whole.

    I am totally for Eugenics.
    I believe Eugenics is short-cut to a complex problem that eventually goes nowhere.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: Nazi Germany & Spartan Greece

    Quote Originally Posted by Pushkin
    I believe Eugenics is short-cut to a complex problem that eventually goes nowhere.
    Do you have RELIGIOUS objections to Eugenics?
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Post Re: Nazi Germany & Spartan Greece

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    Do you have RELIGIOUS objections to Eugenics?
    Yes I do!

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: Nazi Germany & Spartan Greece

    Quote Originally Posted by Pushkin
    Yes I do!
    Then that 'Christian Sparta' of yours is a non-starter by your own admission!

    You must over-come the shackle of Christian morality; for that you need a good dose of what you laughably call the "Nietzschean Nonsense".

    Man is something that must be overcome - what have you done to overcome him?
    Man is a rope suspended between ape and superman; and yet you are more ape than any ape.

    I teach you the superhuman - humanity is something to be overcome.
    Last edited by Moody; Tuesday, April 13th, 2004 at 06:26 PM. Reason: spelling
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Post Re: Nazi Germany & Spartan Greece

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    Then that 'Christian Sparta' of yours is a non-starter by your own admission!
    Not at all really. I only have to read about the military training and such in Kieven Rus to prove this wrong. Or how about the Cossacks of Steppes, who lived a Spartan lifestyle and also were devout Christians. Then also the discipline and self-denial of Christian monks could equal that of the Spartans.

    You must over-come the shackle of Christian morality; for that you need a good dose of what your laughably call the "Nietzschean Nonsense".
    I already had a dose of it.

    Man is a rope suspended between ape and superman; and yet you are more ape than any ape.
    ROTFL! Yeah and I need to explain Nietszchean nonsense to you.

    I teach you the superhuman
    I teach you Godmanhood; which basically turns Nietszche's superman on its head.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: Nazi Germany & Spartan Greece

    The fact that you have already - on this thread! - rejected Spartan Eugenics on Christian grounds shows that Christianity and the Spartan ethos are incompatible!

    That Christians have also been soldiers is common knowledge and not the point; we are talking the Spartan ethos here.

    Of course, those Rus, like those Crusaders of the Middle Ages, were really Vikings; the Viking ethos still lived within them and could not be shaken off by a sprinkling of Holy Water.

    Amazing that Christianity believes a mere drop of the wet stuff could change someone so!

    The Jews took advantage of this when they 'converted' to Christianity to avoid being thrown out of Spain!
    This point was made by that man Nietzsche who according to you is full of "nonsense" - ha!

    What could be more nonsenical than 'baptism'?
    Last edited by Moody; Tuesday, April 13th, 2004 at 06:28 PM. Reason: punctuation
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Post Re: Nazi Germany & Spartan Greece

    What pure nonsense!

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    Of course, those Rus like those Crusaders of the Middle Ages were really Vikings;
    Thats highly debatable and much criticism has emerged lately refuting the Normanist theory.

    Amazing that Christianity believes a mere drop of the wet stuff could change someone so!
    You clearly have no knowledge of Christian theology.

    The Jews took advantage of this when they 'converted' to Christianity to avoid being thrown out of Spain!
    Yet faced the Inqusition because the Christians saw through their hypocrisy. Indeed whenever Jews did convert to Christianity, their performance was never impressive. Indeed even early Church father ridiculed the lack of faith in Jewish Christians. Indeed, this in many ways helps undermine the notion that Christianity is a Jewish religion and helps proves what Hitler said that Christianity is incompatible with the Jewish mind.

    This point was made by that man Nietzsche who according to you is full of "nonsense" - ha!
    And as Berdyaev correctly said, Nietszche attacked Christianity without even trying to fully understand its meaning and such; and thus in the end proved his utter ingorance of Christianity altogether. Indeed my opinion of Nietzsche is similar to his opinion of Socrates; a loud-mouth idiot who got himself reconized by saying outrageous things.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: Nazi Germany & Spartan Greece

    Pushkin; "What pure nonsense!"

    Moody; Clearly Pushkin, your only mode of argumentation is pure abuse.
    You have nowhere adressed your oxymoronic assertion of a "Christian Sparta", where Spartan Eugenics conflict with Christian ethics by your own admission!
    Rather than accept the wrong-headedness of such a concoction as "Christian Sparta" or some such, you then go on to abuse your opponents in utter vacuity.

    The Normans were Vikings before they were given the land of Normandy by the French King [simply because they kept raiding it].
    That the Vikings were pagans is attested in the historical record; that they converted to Christianity did not change their nature overnight.

    When Normans embarked on the Crusades, putting 'heretics' to the sword, they were following their Viking instincts NOT their Christian ones.
    The recent "criticism" of the Viking theory comes from those who want to pretend that there were no Viking invasions [and no Aryan invasions come to that], and rather pretend that the Viking raiders were peaceful farmers on a hike! Even so, even these revisionists cannot deny that the Vikings were pagans!

    I am refering to the impossibility of the notion that one can 'convert' to an alien religion like Christianity and thereby leave behind one's own Race Soul, whether one be a Viking or a Jew - huge misconception and a liberal view of human nature as demonstrated by yourself.

    Nietzsche was well-versed in Christianity being the son of a Pastor and of a long line of Christian clergy on both sides of his family.
    His criticism of Socrates was based on the latter's seeming non-Aryan appearance and his espousal of a moral view of the world which prefigured some Christian ideas.

    Does this Socrates look Aryan to you? -



    Nietzsche, like the Spartans, believed in Eugenics - unlike you and other Christians, he had no moral objections to it; and that is the weakness you refuse to address, and therefore hide behind empty abuse.
    Last edited by Moody; Tuesday, April 13th, 2004 at 06:31 PM. Reason: added image
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Post Re: Nazi Germany & Spartan Greece

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    Pushkin; "What pure nonsense!"

    Moody; Clearly Pushkin, your only mode of argumentation is pure abuse.
    And I'm about to show your mode of argumentation is make up straw man arguments and then "refute" them.

    You have nowhere adressed your oxymoronic assertion of a "Christian Sparta", where Spartan Eugenics conflict with Christian ethics by your own admission!
    First off Moody, there was more to Sparta than just eugenics. In fact you speak as if thats the main aspect of Spartanism. It is not. I'm talking about their military prowess and virtues. Indeed the Christian apologist Origen talked about the compatibility of the sacrifice of King Lenoidas to Christian virtue. He even said Lenoidas died for Sparta as Christ died for his people.

    Rather than accept the wrong-headedness of such a concoction as "Christian Sparta" or some such, you then go on to abuse your opponents in utter vacuity.
    Whatever gets you through the night!

    The Normans were Vikings before they were given the land of Normandy by the French King [simply because they kept raiding it].
    I love how you try to drift this thread. Please point to me where I have said the Normans were not Vikings.

    That the Vikings were pagans is attested in the historical record;
    Where did I deny they were pagans? I love how you try to pull arguments out of nowhere.

    that they converted to Christianity did not change their nature overnight.
    Where did I claim this? Go ahead, please find the f****g quote in this thread or anyother thread for that matter where I have claimed such a thing.

    When Normans embarked on the Crusades, putting 'heretics' to the sword, they were following their Viking instincts NOT their Christian ones.
    They took a Germanic concept and adopted it to Christianity. Indeed, I'm debating this over at the Phora. Now where did I claim such a thing?

    Even so, even these revisionists cannot deny that the Vikings were pagans!
    Where I have denied they were pagans? I believe the most I've denied is that the Rus(or the majority of them) were Vikings.

    I am refering to the impossibility of the notion that one can 'convert' to an alien religion like Christianity and thereby leave behind one's own Race Soul, whether one be a Viking or a Jew - huge misconception and a liberal view of human nature as demonstrated by yourself.
    ROTFL! Nice straw man Moody! Where have I ever made such a claim? I have repeatedly demonstrated and argued that Christianity adopts itself to each nation's culture; so this notion of "leaving behind race soul" or adopting an "alien religion" is just pure nonsense!

    In fact I often quote from this Eastern Catholic site which declares:

    http://home.nyc.rr.com/mysticalrose/eastern.html

    All the rites of the Catholic Church also hold the same dogmas; they are unequivocally united in faith and moral teachings, for they are all part of one Holy Mother Church. Yet their policies and practices often differ according to custom. This is a good and healthy thing; it shows that the One Truth of God can be celebrated in many different ways by various cultures.


    So nice straw man Moody, but I'm afraid it fell short of the facts.

    Nietzsche was well-versed in Christianity being the son of a Pastor and of a long line of Christian clergy on both sides of his family.
    Protestants are not exactly the best source for Christian theology.

    His criticism of Socrates was based on the latter's seeming non-Aryan appearance
    ROTFL! Thank you for that, it further proves my view he was a pure nutcase, as his own doctor admitted.

    and his espousal of a moral view of the world which prefigured some Christian ideas
    Thanks again, it proves much of Christian thinking was evident in Greek thinking.

    Nietzsche, like the Spartans, believed in Eugenics - unlike you and other Christians, he had no moral objections to it; and that is the weakness you refuse to address, and therefore hide behind empty abuse.
    Address what? I know the Spartans practiced Eugenics, so again nice straw man!
    Last edited by Moody; Tuesday, March 16th, 2004 at 08:07 PM. Reason: unnecesary use of bad language

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