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Thread: What Did the Picts Look Like?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Willow
    I thought it was primarily highlanders who were dark
    The Picts were Highlanders.

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    It should be pertinent on a Germanic forum to maintain the Germanic historical perspective. This means challenging anti Nordic revisionism.
    If one visits the highlands of Scotland one immediately notices a sharp division between flat agricultural land and steeply rising Highland geology. Within 100 meters one can go from rich agricultural land to steep heather and acid soils.
    The highlanders had a culture of hunting and cattle based economy compared to grain producing areas. There has always been tension between highlanders and agriculturalists and a visible ethnic divide. It may be that the darker flat landers have an ancient middle eastern input but who would want to draw attention to that?
    There is a tradition in Northern England and Scotland that it is good luck for a dark haired man to be the first to cross the door threshold at new year. The reason being that if a fair haired or red headed man crossed the threshold you were either going to be killed or visited by the Germano Scandinavian overlords.
    Since Picts had an aristocratic society with fortresses such as Bennachie. it is logical to see they were dominating a subject population. Latest research into ogham scripts also indicates they translate into Germanic language.
    My representation of a Pict. Kevin McKidd. A native of Elgin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by forkbeard View Post
    Latest research into ogham scripts also indicates they translate into Germanic language.
    I would love to see some more about this!

    Quote Originally Posted by forkbeard View Post
    My representation of a Pict. Kevin McKidd. A native of Elgin.
    Hmm reminds me of Daniel Craig.


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    Quote Originally Posted by forkbeard View Post
    Tacitus describes the inhabitants of Caledonia (i.e Picts) as "being clearly of Germanic origins having reddish hair."
    And it is clear from Tacitus's account that his only justification for this is the red hair, in other words, this is barely worth noting. (I do actually support the notion of Scandinavian contacts with the North before the Iron Age, but this is hardly the best bit of evidence to bring up)
    It is mentioned that the Romans despatced the "Rapax" legion to Scotland to presumably rape and bastardise the population. I presume this to be the reason for the swarthy types in Aberdeenshire.
    Your source for this drivel being????
    Rapax means predator, not rapist! Why bastardise a population when you can kill it outright anyway? Why do that though? A big fat waste of effort. There are signs that the Roman government carried out population transfers using peoples from Beyond the Wall, so we shouldn't look for more radical policies like this one you have dreamt up.

    You really have some unsavoury preoccupations, you know. Bastardisation as an official policy in the first century Ad...

    Here is a definitive list of Legions active in Britannia:
    Roman Citizen Legiones Stationed or Otherwise Evidenced in Britain
    Legio II Adiutrix - The Second Assistant Legion
    Legio II Augusta - The Second Augustan Legion
    Legio VI Victrix - The Sixth Victorious Legion
    Legio VIII Augusta - The Eighth Augustan Legion
    Legio IX Hispana - The Ninth Spanish Legion
    Legio XIV Gemina - The Fourteenth Twin Legion
    Legio XX Valeria - The Twentieth Legion, Valiant and Victorious
    Legio XXII Deiotariana - The Twenty-Second Deiotarian Legion
    Legio XXII Primigenia - The Twenty-Second Firstborn Legion

    XXI Rapax is not there...
    Nb Rowan Atkinson is a well known Semite and looks thoroughly like one.
    It doesn't particularly matter, but how do you know that? He doesn't look like a Jew to me. Then again, I probably look like a Jew to you...
    Quote Originally Posted by forkbeard View Post
    It should be pertinent on a Germanic forum to maintain the Germanic historical perspective. This means challenging anti Nordic revisionism.
    Unfortunately, it also seems to mean spouting drivel, to show us up as cranks.
    If one visits the highlands of Scotland one immediately notices a sharp division between flat agricultural land and steeply rising Highland geology. Within 100 meters one can go from rich agricultural land to steep heather and acid soils.
    The highlanders had a culture of hunting and cattle based economy compared to grain producing areas. There has always been tension between highlanders and agriculturalists and a visible ethnic divide.
    Things were not, and never are, so clear cut as you seem to indicate.
    It may be that the darker flat landers have an ancient middle eastern input but who would want to draw attention to that?
    Were it true, then our enemies would jump on it to embarrass us. If we had suppressed knowledge of it, our followers would be intellectually incapable of dealing with such assaults. Best to acknowledge what seems to be true, rather than forever live in fear of others finding out about it.
    There is a tradition in Northern England and Scotland that it is good luck for a dark haired man to be the first to cross the door threshold at new year. The reason being that if a fair haired or red headed man crossed the threshold you were either going to be killed or visited by the Germano Scandinavian overlords.

    Since Picts had an aristocratic society with fortresses such as Bennachie. it is logical to see they were dominating a subject population. Latest research into ogham scripts also indicates they translate into Germanic language.
    My representation of a Pict. Kevin McKidd. A native of Elgin.
    Do you imagine a whole population near identical to him? Impossible, or at least HIGHLY unlikely!

    GODS ALMIGHTY, if you are an ignorant person reading this thread, and know nothing of the Picts, please don't accept some of the mad things some people say! The Picts looked like their present descendants do! End of story! There may have been some fluctuation in the frequency of specific types, but all 'ingredients' in the mix were already around to some extent in the heyday of Pictavia.

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    As has been pointed out, the Picts would basically have been of the racial types found in much of Scotland today (although the types may not have been as blended as they are now; a whole class and/or tribe may often have been of a distinct type, or types, clearly distinguishable from that of other classes/tribes).

    My take on it is that their dominant cultural heritage was from the Megalith builders (tall Atlanto-mediterraneans), judging by the apparent sequences of the invaders of Britain. In that case probably the ruling classes and perhaps those in the middle would have been descended from these Megalithic people, with a lower class made up of people descended from the pre-Neolithic hunter gatherers. However there may well have been areas never actually settled by the former, but the people there must have become culturally similar enough to be considered Picts.

    No doubt the later Celts had a strong influence, perhaps even passing on their language, but some aspects of the Pictish culture (matrilineage, for example) seem to indicate that they were predominantly derived from a non-Indo-European group.

    I've read that the Romans described a tribe in Perthshire as swarthy and similar to people they'd seen in southern Spain. But there was no reference so I've got no idea what the source is.

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    The Pictii or Caledonians aren't likely to have been greatly different in appearance from the other native Britons or "Celtic" speaking peoples of Britain.
    Supposedly genetic surveys of modern Scots living in what was the Pictish heartland find no great genetic disparity (esp. maternal) from the Welsh and Irish even, at least according to geneticist Bryan Sykes in a book of his. In other words, the ancient "neolithic" stock of the Isles.
    Some scholars evidently believe the 'Pictish' language was kin to modern-day Welsh, thus a form of British p-"Celtic" speech that was replaced by Irish "q-Celtic".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhydderch View Post
    As No doubt the later Celts had a strong influence, perhaps even passing on their language, but some aspects of the Pictish culture (matrilineage, for example) seem to indicate that they were predominantly derived from a non-Indo-European group.
    As an aside, are you familiar with the matrilineally influenced tendencies in Wales, at least into the Nineteenth Century? Such things are found not only in former Pictish territory. There's a bit of a substrate of it everywhere.

    Ever heard of how people around Peterhead are still supposed to refer to neighbours and friends with a matronymic? Perhaps not quite so formal as that, but with a clear tendency to stress female line descent. I have a friend whose Dad used to work in the prison up there, and could explain it better than I. Is it widely known at all?

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    Wallace and forbes clansmen at Strathdon.
    Oswiu, did you not know the whole point of Varus's campaign into Germania was to introduce Black and Asian blood. To bastardise the Germanic peoples and destroy their purity thereby neutralising them as a threat. An aim still aspired to by various world rulers and pushed throughout history under various guises such as Christianity and other forms of internationalist ideology.
    If Herman had not defeated Varus there would have been no Germania. No Anglo-Saxon invasion and colonisation. No British Empire. No USA, Australia, New Zealand, Soth Africa etc.
    Stationing of foreign troops to facilitate race-mixing was part and parcel of Roman governance, everyone knows this, they even had it in the Alex Kingston version of Boudicca.
    That Britain became a mongrel nation is why it was colonised by the Anglo Saxons. Mongrels cannot fight.

    Welshman is Anglo Saxon for a half breed Romano Brit. They are short, have round heads and are swarthy with brown eyes.
    Of course there is a concentrated campaign to rewrite White and especially Germanic history by the enemies of our blood.
    I know you don't want to believe it but you can't rewrite 2000 years of folkish history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu
    As an aside, are you familiar with the matrilineally influenced tendencies in Wales, at least into the Nineteenth Century?
    Doesn't sound familiar, but interesting given that Wales has perhaps a much stronger Atlanto-med genetic influence than most other parts of the British Isles. Maybe there was less Celtic settlement, and a stronger cultural survival of the earlier Megalithic people in mountainous Wales.

    Ever heard of how people around Peterhead are still supposed to refer to neighbours and friends with a matronymic? Perhaps not quite so formal as that, but with a clear tendency to stress female line descent. I have a friend whose Dad used to work in the prison up there, and could explain it better than I. Is it widely known at all?
    Interesting. No I haven't heard of it. What would be an example of this kind of thing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by forkbeard
    Wallace and forbes clansmen at Strathdon.
    Oswiu, did you not know the whole point of Varus's campaign into Germania was to introduce Black and Asian blood. To bastardise the Germanic peoples and destroy their purity thereby neutralising them as a threat. An aim still aspired to by various world rulers and pushed throughout history under various guises such as Christianity and other forms of internationalist ideology.
    If Herman had not defeated Varus there would have been no Germania. No Anglo-Saxon invasion and colonisation. No British Empire. No USA, Australia, New Zealand, Soth Africa etc.
    Stationing of foreign troops to facilitate race-mixing was part and parcel of Roman governance, everyone knows this, they even had it in the Alex Kingston version of Boudicca.
    That Britain became a mongrel nation is why it was colonised by the Anglo Saxons. Mongrels cannot fight.
    Some major assumptions with no basis there.

    Welshman is Anglo Saxon for a half breed Romano Brit. They are short, have round heads and are swarthy with brown eyes.
    Actually their heads are no rounder than those of the English, and although the Welsh are darker on average, a swarthy Welshman is probably just as likely to be tall, lean and very long headed as he is to be short and round-headed. I'd also venture to say that the majority would be fair-skinned like the majority of their other island neighbours, and they are predominantly light-eyed. Plenty of brown-haired and even red-haired people too (from the strong Bruenn and also Keltic influence, the latter perhaps less common than in England and Ireland, but strong nonetheless).
    You being from Lancashire (reasonably close to Wales isn't it), surely you'd know this?

    If the fact that the Welsh are more commonly dark than their neighbours were due to them being Roman-Celtic "mongrels", then one would expect to find a correspondingly higher proportion of racial types common in Italy (or wherever the Roman imports came from), such as Alpinid, "classic med" and others.
    Instead, we find that the racial types are pretty much the same as elsewhere in the British Isles, only in somewhat different frequencies. The darker Welsh are of the same dark racial types common in other parts of the isles, but the genetic influence of these types is exceptionally common in Wales, and therefore less absorbed by lighter featured types. I think that is a more plausible reason for the higher frequency of dark pigmentation in that country.

    Any foreign blood possibly imported by the Romans appears to have been absorbed to the point of being unrecognisable. In any case Wales, a mountainous, wild land on the periphery of Roman Britain is surely one of the least likely places to have experienced significant foreign infiltration.

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