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Thread: Are Borreby/Brun and Paleolithic survivors Nordic ?

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    Post Are Borreby/Brun and Paleolithic survivors Nordic ?

    I wanted to make a few remarks :

    -I dont know why many people on this forum call borreby/brun etc nordic, but they are not nordic types, they are large headed paleolithic survivors.
    There are only 4 nordic types according to Charleton Coon :
    Keltic Iron Age Type
    Anglo-Saxon Type
    Trondelagen Type
    Osterdal Type

    -Correct me if im wrong but Charleton Coon doesnt acknowledge the Faelid type, Faelid is a type that is only used by others like Gunther (who is an idiot by the way) and Lundman. So please be consistent : you cant mix different systems up with eachother, so if you use Coon`s system then dont use Faelids

    -I am amazed by all the people that quote or refer to http://www.nordish.com/, its an amateuristic unscientific site, furthermore the makers of the site are Nordicists that try to Nordicwash (try to make nordic) countries like England and Germany. They use a hilarious concept of so called central and periphery `nordish` types which doesnt make sense at all, it totally contradicts with Charleton Coon`s views.

    -There can be found nordic individuals in Germany everywhere, but Germany is a non-nordic country, according to Charleton Coon :
    Northern Germany = mainly Borreby and Brun (= not nordic)
    Southern Germany = mainly alpine and some dinaric (= not nordic)
    Central Germany = intermediate condition between the 2 above extremes (= not nordic)

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    Post Re: a few points

    Aren't Brunns long-headed?
    "Whatever is done from love always occurs beyond good and evil." - F. Nietzsche

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    Post Re: a few points

    Quote Originally Posted by executiona9
    I wanted to make a few remarks :

    -I dont know why many people on this forum call borreby/brun etc nordic, but they are not nordic types, they are large headed paleolithic survivors.
    There are only 4 nordic types according to Charleton Coon :
    Keltic Iron Age Type
    Anglo-Saxon Type
    Trondelagen Type
    Osterdal Type

    -Correct me if im wrong but Charleton Coon doesnt acknowledge the Faelid type, Faelid is a type that is only used by others like Gunther (who is an idiot by the way) and Lundman. So please be consistent : you cant mix different systems up with eachother, so if you use Coon`s system then dont use Faelids

    -I am amazed by all the people that quote or refer to http://www.nordish.com/, its an amateuristic unscientific site, furthermore the makers of the site are Nordicists that try to Nordicwash (try to make nordic) countries like England and Germany. They use a hilarious concept of so called central and periphery `nordish` types which doesnt make sense at all, it totally contradicts with Charleton Coon`s views.

    -There can be found nordic individuals in Germany everywhere, but Germany is a non-nordic country, according to Charleton Coon :
    Northern Germany = mainly Borreby and Brun (= not nordic)
    Southern Germany = mainly alpine and some dinaric (= not nordic)
    Central Germany = intermediate condition between the 2 above extremes (= not nordic)


    Hello--

    I'm not sure that there are many who refer to the UP types that you mentioned as Nordic in the strict sense of the word and type. Many will refer to them as "Nordish" (an altogether different thing) and this is based on Richard McCulloch's 'Racial Compact'. This terminology is largely based on geography and historic cohabitation and intermixture between these ancient human forms.

    Also, it's Carleton not Charlton Coon. No biggie though...

    Correct, Coon did not include the Faelid type in his taxonomy. I wrote this in another post already today but he did backhandedly note them in his photographic plates. He included two men from north Germany and classed them as "Nordics altered by UP admixture".

    Why can't we use different classification systems simultaneously? As long as they aren't glaringly different, I see nothing wrong with that. Different Anthropologists throughout history have interpreted the ancient cranioskeletal and modern morphological/metrical/pigment data in different ways and have come up with different results. Personally, I don't like to be locked into one strict way of thinking on a subject as often nebulous as Physical Anthropology. Also, many of the types from different schemes can be cross-referenced. For example, Lundman's 'Skando-Nordid' is Coon's 'Hallstatt Nordic' and is Czekanowski's 'Littoral Nordic' or Coon's 'Keltic' is Lundman's 'North Atlantid' and so on...

    As for SNPA, I will not speak for them. Even though I don't agree with them or McCulloch 100% (that's a stretch for anyone though--even so-called 'Nordicists') I appreciate very much the work that they have done.

    No one (except perhaps Gunther) has said that Germany is 100% Nordic. The Nordic element there seems strong, especially in the north but is also very much infused with UP strains of various types as you noted.

    I hope this helps.

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    Post Re: a few points

    Quote Originally Posted by Allenson
    No one (except perhaps Gunther) has said that Germany is 100% Nordic. The Nordic element there seems strong, especially in the north but is also very much infused with UP strains of various types as you noted.
    "The Nordid race may amount to about 50% of the German blood - in the northern half of the German language area about 55%, in the southern about 40%.

    The Alpinid element may amount to about 20% of the German blood - in the northern half of the German language area about 15%, in the southern probably rather 25%.

    The Dinarid element may amount to about 15% of the German blood - in the northern half of the German language area at the most 5%, in the southern about 20-25%.

    The Osteuropid element may amount to about 8%, in the northern half of the German language area 10%, in the western half of the German language area about 3-4%, in the eastern 15%, in the southern (without German Switzerland and Austria) maybe 2%.

    The Dalofaelid element may amount to about 5% of the German blood, in northwest Germany, north Hesse and west Thuringia about 10% or a bit more, in south Germany maybe 2-3%.

    The Mediterranid element may amount at the most to 2% of the German blood, in the southern half maybe 5%."


    (Hans F. K. Günther, Rassenkunde des deutschen Volkes, Munich 1942 [follows the 16th ed. of 1933], p. 295f.)
    Man ſei Held oder Heiliger. In der Mitte liegt nicht die Weisheit, ſondern die Alltäglichkeit.

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    Post Re: a few points

    In my opinion Richard McCullogh is a nordicist that invented the Central/Periphery ``Nordish`` system in order to label all Brits as Nordics/Nordish for his own purpose, people like him shouldnt be taken seriously, same accounts for www.nordish.com.
    I take everything nordicist websites claim with a grain of salt


    Dalonord :

    ``No one (except perhaps Gunther) has said that Germany is 100% Nordic. The Nordic element there seems strong, especially in the north but is also very much infused with UP strains of various types as you noted.``

    Can you explain please why you think the Nordic element is strong in Germany? According to Carleton Coon almost all area`s in Germany are predominant Upper Paleolithic (=not nordic)

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    Post Re: a few points

    Executiona9 is my new favourite poster

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    Post Re: a few points

    I guess it all comes down to Europeans being either descended from Neolithic or UP peoples or a mixture of both.The only difference is that people use geographical labels for their own political reasons.For example "Dinarics"(Med+Alpinid or Neolithic+UP) etc.

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    Post Re: a few points

    Quote Originally Posted by Nordgau
    "The Nordid race may amount to about 50% of the German blood - in the northern half of the German language area about 55%, in the southern about 40%.

    The Alpinid element may amount to about 20% of the German blood - in the northern half of the German language area about 15%, in the southern probably rather 25%.

    The Dinarid element may amount to about 15% of the German blood - in the northern half of the German language area at the most 5%, in the southern about 20-25%.

    The Osteuropid element may amount to about 8%, in the northern half of the German language area 10%, in the western half of the German language area about 3-4%, in the eastern 15%, in the southern (without German Switzerland and Austria) maybe 2%.

    The Dalofaelid element may amount to about 5% of the German blood, in northwest Germany, north Hesse and west Thuringia about 10% or a bit more, in south Germany maybe 2-3%.

    The Mediterranid element may amount at the most to 2% of the German blood, in the southern half maybe 5%."


    (Hans F. K. Günther, Rassenkunde des deutschen Volkes, Munich 1942 [follows the 16th ed. of 1933], p. 295f.)


    Ok-Ok, your point has been well taken and was well-placed, Nordgau.

    Admittedly, I was writing off of the top of my head....and I did say perhaps...


    I'll bet Germans make great fact-checkers, LOL....

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    Post Re: a few points

    Quote Originally Posted by executiona9
    In my opinion Richard McCullogh is a nordicist that invented the Central/Periphery ``Nordish`` system in order to label all Brits as Nordics/Nordish for his own purpose, people like him shouldnt be taken seriously, same accounts for www.nordish.com.
    I take everything nordicist websites claim with a grain of salt


    Dalonord :

    ``No one (except perhaps Gunther) has said that Germany is 100% Nordic. The Nordic element there seems strong, especially in the north but is also very much infused with UP strains of various types as you noted.``

    Can you explain please why you think the Nordic element is strong in Germany? According to Carleton Coon almost all area`s in Germany are predominant Upper Paleolithic (=not nordic)

    Indeed there are flaws, but again I'll say that I repect their work and appreciate their efforts at raising racial awareness....

    I would also take Medicist and Slavicist and Afrocentrist sites with some grains of salt as well..... Want fries with that?

    We can read all the old books we want but without using our own eyes, then we are only relying on others too much.

    I agree that Germany is largely UP but what I meant was that in these UP strains is a fair deal of Nordid as well. It may not show up often as 'pure' individuals but it is clearly evident as an infusion. Think about it: these types have been cohabitating for many thousands of years now. Do you think the UP strains are 'pure'? I doubt it very much.

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    Post Re: a few points

    Quote Originally Posted by executiona9
    Dalonord :

    ``No one (except perhaps Gunther) has said that Germany is 100% Nordic. The Nordic element there seems strong, especially in the north but is also very much infused with UP strains of various types as you noted.``

    Can you explain please why you think the Nordic element is strong in Germany? According to Carleton Coon almost all area`s in Germany are predominant Upper Paleolithic (=not nordic)
    The UP is quite generalised in Germany IMO, it seems that the stereotypical German is the typical UP. The nordic element is strong in Germany, but very mixed. You will find very few Nordics unaltered by UP there.

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