Aistins

[Glenlivet]

I believe that these long - and narrow-faced Latvian men are rather good examples of the Aistin (also called East-Nordid) type.

1. Andris Argalis (to be frank, he could pass for a Northwestern European Nordid in e.g. England)

2. Eriks Jekabsons

3. Guntars Krasts (I am more sure about this gentleman)

4. Guntis Berzinš (see the very high skull, very narrow-faced too!)

5. Guntis Berzinš (perhaps with an East-Baltic strain, not as sharp features)

6. Oskars Kastens

7. Stanislavs Škesters

8. Janis Graudonis

9. Andrejs Vasks

10. Inese Vaidere

[Agrippa]

Do you distinguish in detail between the Eastnordid (Aistin) and what some call the corded type or not?
Sorry for the simple question but I didnt read to much about the Aistin type and just recognized an Eastnordid variant in Eastern Europe with higher skull etc...

[Allenson]

Do you distinguish in detail between the Eastnordid (Aistin) and what some call the corded type or not?
Sorry for the simple question but I didnt read to much about the Aistin type and just recognized an Eastnordid variant in Eastern Europe with higher skull etc...

I was wondering the same thing. I've heard some (from Volks ) about Aistins before (Lundman's scheme?) and of course the Slav crowd is very fond of Corded Ware types. To me, the are one in the same.

What say you, Volks?

[norda]

I was wondering the same thing. I've heard some (from Volks ) about Aistins before (Lundman's scheme?) and of course the Slav crowd is very fond of Corded Ware types. To me, the are one in the same.

What say you, Volks?

I think corded as descendants of both Mediterranean and Nordics are longer sculled then typical Nordics (cephalic point 77) especially of eastern branch. Also corded hair pigmentation is rather darker. Possibly its hard to divide both types in terms of scull height and height of oculus (corded should have slightly lower but pure types are rare).
Very possibly typical corded eyes are slightly going externally down what is rather typical for Mediterranean strain.

[Vojvoda]

Isn't being high skulled a trademark of eastern Europeans,with the exception of Troenders? I have been told I look very high skulled by pretty much everyone who classified me.

[Allenson]

Isn't being high skulled a trademark of eastern Europeans,with the exception of Troenders? I have been told I look very high skulled by pretty much everyone who classified me.

That's what the books tell us.

Anglo-Saxons are moderately high as well...

[Glenlivet]

East Nordid

Coon's description of Corded skulls is somewhat similar as Lundman's East Nordid. But he also said that we should withold judgement upon the soft parts and pigmentation. He also wrote "There is one cautionary remark which must be made here, and that is: there is so far no justifiable reason for assuming that the Corded people were Nordics." [The Races of Europe, Chapter IV, section 9, The Corded or Battle-Axe People]

"The Corded Pottery people is characterized among other neolithic-eneolithic peoples by the big length, the big height and the small breadth of the braincase and by the small breadth measurements of the face (45 bizygomatic breadth, 51 orbital breadth, 66 bigonial breadth)"

[THE INFLUENCE OF THE STEPPE PEOPLE BASED ON THE PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGICAL DATA IN SPECIAL CONSIDERATION TO THE CORDED-BATTLE AXE CULTURE by Ilse Schwidetzky, Anthropological Institute of the Mainz University]

Lundman claimed that "östnordider" (East Nordids) are except the skull height so greatly similar to the West Nordids, that they could, in another arrangement, been up as a subrace thereof. Aistin is a subrace in Western Finland and Estonia, and there is a so-called Arin, in Eastern Europe and Western Asia. Both are tall. The term Aistin is derived from the word Aistii, which is what the Germanen called the peoples living northeast of the Vistula River.

We do not know if these "sydöstnordiska högskallarna" (the high skulled Southeast Nordids) were lower-skulled than the ones derived in west from Cro-Magnids.

Lundman wrote that Von Eickstedts division in "teuto-" and "fälo-"nordider is fairly pointless. Furthermore, he said that it is especially pointless if one is going to give a deeper meaning than the pure phenotypic morphological. He give the example of both very narrow faced and low skulled Western Swedes and many similar types in England and also Friesland. The Height-Length Index (HLI) in Europe has not varied much since the Stone Age. Lundman thought that among Nordid groups the facial shape and HLI seem to not show any correlation.

Lundman's Aisto Nordid variety is located just east of the Baltic Sea. It is a variety of an East Nordid race ("öst-nordisk ras").

He mention that it is mostly clear if one exempt (the to a large extent directly colonined in historical times directly from Sweden) Nyland. The long headed and tall "Nordid" districts are almost as high skulled and q-rich, as the more "East Baltid" accentuated. There is no doubt in the adequateness and reliability of the investigations.

Finnish scientist are right, led by Karsten, that probably the majority of the modern Nordid humans east of the Baltic Sea did not come first with the Viking Age and later came from Sweden, but that they have been there since late Bronze Age. Therefore, their Eastern European high skulledness and blood allele distribution is extremely important and significant.

Lundman believed that it is clear that in them there are rests of the old blond, long and high skulled Proto-Indo-Europeans which is only very little mixed with West Nordid, low skulled elements. By this he defend the arrangement of an Aisto Nordid subrace: high skulled, tall, and probably not particularly narrow faced. He also stated that "Racially these early Indo-Europeans were a very progressive mid-European type, characterized by a high-vaulted dolichocephalic skull." [THE RACIAL HISTORY OF SCANDINAVIA An Outline by Bertil J. Lundman]

We are talking about the Baltic region. But I should also mention that in Tröndelagen and Eastern Sweden the high skulled Battle Axe people came in lesser numbers, but they were relatively more numerous, unlike Western Scandinavia were the few invaders disappeared in the masses. Here then the (nevertheless relatively) somewhat higher skulled Trönder (common in Hälsingland and Jämtland) type arose. However, in Finland the natives were already higher skulled and any possible mixtures with these did not decrease the head height of the immigrating Proto-Indo-Europeans.

I have not yet seen if Deniker, Czekanowski, Bunak, Saller, Günther, Nordenstreng, V. Eickstedt etc. ever mentioned an East Nordid subrace. However, they may have described such a type with another label.

Do you distinguish in detail between the Eastnordid (Aistin) and what some call the corded type or not?
Sorry for the simple question but I didnt read to much about the Aistin type and just recognized an Eastnordid variant in Eastern Europe with higher skull etc...

[Glenlivet]

I also added three more Latvians, two men and a woman:

8. Janis Graudonis

9. Andrejs Vasks

10. Inese Vaidere

Please add persons that you feel belong to this type.

[Prodigal Son]

nt.

[Glenlivet]

I have posted him in another thread a long time ago.

Ivo Etti, an Estonian bassist in the group Ruffus.