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Thread: The Negroid Subraces

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    Post The Negroid Subraces

    This is a translation and summary which I made of the chapter Das negride Afrika. Körperformgruppen (p. 485-562) of Egon von Eickstedt's Rassenkunde und Rassengeschichte der Menschheit. I omitted the Khoisanids, but included the African Pygmids.


    Negrid Africa

    The Europoid Contact Belt:

    The whole northern broad extension of the African continent, reaching from Cape Verde in Senegambia to Cape Guardafui in Somalia, is contact area between the white and the black race. The interlocking could and had to assume at this more than 7000 km long distance very different forms. There are thus innumerable racial transitions and shadings, which let here the foreign element come out again, but are there stabilized in gautypes, tribal types or social stratification; which are elements and strains of quite recent character as well as closed and old connections of the development period of the races, thus proper zoological transition forms with harmonized somatic type.
    The racial processes seem to be in the west in a more labile, in the east in a more stabile situation. Proceeding from west to east, one can observe five groups of different mixing, but mainly with an increasing fixing of types:

    1. The Moorish-Senegambian border peoples: In Morocco, only the urban and the coast-near population shows Negrid infiltration, not the inner tribes. But the Moors of Mauretania show again Negrid influence on Berb basis. The contact zone is here relatively narrow, stronger Negrization appears not until Senegambia.

    2. The Tuareg of the dune desert Igidi and of Ahaggar: Among the Tuareg in the western Sahara there is a broad Negrid lower class and many mixture forms. The most remarkable characteristic of the racial structure of the Tuareg is the social stratification.

    3. The Tibu in the central high mountains of Tibesti: The type is here more homogenous and shows Negrid predominance with an older Europoid component. They are a nest, a racial nest of Negrid race. The mountainous massif became a refugium for older strata.

    4. The upper Egyptians: The picture is here in the middle Nile region less clear, and in this race mosaique predominance of Europid characteristics and predominance of Negrid each change with the other.

    5. The Aethiopids in the east: The area of gradual transition, which the middle Nile valley represents, reaches with a soft own type in the area of El Obeid and Shekka wide into the Sudan in the west, so that here real interlocking happens. But more east of the Nile, already at the beginning of its middle course, a somatically to a great extent homogenous peoples mass spreads out over the highlands of Abessinia and Somalia, where we find as basic element a very old independent transition form between Europids and Negrids:

    The Aethiopids: The term of the Aethiopids is only identical more or less over wider areas with the eastern Hamitic of the two Hamitic groups. One can imagine the bearers of the original Hamitic language in racial respects probably best as a somatic group between the predominantly Mediterranid mixture of the northern Africans and the Orientalid mixture of inner Arabia, thus as a body-form group which developed out of the circle of the southern Europid dolichocephal groups, especially the proto-Mediterranids.

    Another source of Europid influence to northeast Africa is in southern Arabia, from where since prehistorical times Orientalo-Armenid mixtures penetrated into the area of today's Abessinia. Finally, but not as most unimportant element, is the Negrid component of the Aethiopids to be named. The somatic form totality of the Aethiopids is long since fully harmonized, and thus one can talk with full right of a "race", though this transition form has multiple roots, because of which one should be aware that it is so to speak a race of second order.

    The Aethiopids are strong and slim, often even noticeably high figures with narrow heads and long faces, where the high, not seldom bent nose and the strong chin remind of the Europoid root of the transition form, the slightly thickened lips and the narrow-wavy soft hair of the Negrid root. The high figures of the Aethiopids show a broad rib cage with high, angular shoulders and a narrow waist. The hands are slim, the feet small. However the pelvis is only little broad. And the slim extremities show a strong, but only thin muscles structure. Arms and calfs are thin. All that are weakened Negrid features, also the relatively lower legs. But these characteristics don't appear disproportionalized, but fit harmonically in the racial picture. The female breasts are small, but full.

    The Aethiopid head is long, very narrow and high. The forehead is also narrow, high and steep. The eyes are big and dark. The straight or convex bridge of the nose is quite high and the tip narrow, but not as slim and high as at Europids, and the basis is even quite broad with sharply contoured nostrils. Real prognathy can never be found. The mouth is big and shows quite full, bud not bulged lips. The ears are small.

    The Aethiopids have full hair and fine, narrow-wavy curls. The skin shows a sort of reddish, red.brown undertone, in contrast to the grey undertone of the Negro skin. But there are numerous shadings of skin colours. All in all there are, strongly generalizing, three one another succeding zones of types: the first one is one of a stronger Arab (predominantly Orientalid) influence in the countries which are turned towards Arabia (Bedsha, Abessinia, Easthorn-Somal). Galla and West-Somal with remained tribes of the highlands follow as the actual and most characteristical Aethiopids of southern Abessinia and its neighbouring areas, and finally there are the stronger Negroid Hima and Massai in Kenia and Uganda.


    The Neo-Negrid Bow of the Grassland Negroes

    Among the Negrids, the greater groupings in races let above all realize the antagonism between primitive older Palae-Negrids in or between the great jungle and the younger, more progressive elements in the open areas. The belt of the grassland Negroes reaches as wide bow from west Africa over Wadai and Darfur to the upper Nile area and further to the far south, then even back to the southwest: it forms a great 3/4 circle around the central jungle. This wide extension of space has lead to a characteristical decomposition into types.

    The body-form groups of the western half of middle Africa, the savannah and thornbush steppe between the Guinean coast jungles at the south and the Sahelian semi-desert (of Europoid influence) at the north can be summarized on the whole as Sudanids; they end with the upper Nile area. A new, independent specialization form appears here, which dominates in the papyrus swamps of the Gazelle river and the upper Nile and which already flooded downwards to the lake area: the Nilotids.

    They form so to speak the hinge point in the bow of spreading of the grassland Negroes. Downwards to the south then the landscape character of the thornbush steppe appears first, but turns over soon to the deciduous bush savannah and the thin, foliage throwing dry woods of middle south Africa. This enormous savannah area is the direct lengthening of the most important African streamline of the Hominids, the Ethiopian. The contact has lead here to essential different types than in the Sudan area, to types which cannot deny in spite of all deep dark "blackness" of the skin a clearly Europoid general shape of the features: the Bantuids (Kafrids).

    The Nilotids: The strange landscape of the upper Nile area, which has its character through swamps and watercourses, has also its own, not less strange type of man: the Nilotids. The Nilotids are gaunt and long-legged, they reach not seldom heights of 2 meters. An other noticeable characteristic is the deep darkness of their skin. There is a strange harmony between landscape, man and animal here with the clear fact of an independent human specialization form.

    The Nilotids show own characteristics of the variety as well as features of neighbouring somatic groups. The type of the Nilotids shows partly elegant, progressive-Europoid form developments, but on the other side coarse, plump Negroid strains. A quite long face with a nose which has an already narrow, heightened root and also a narrow, strong straight bridge. The eyes are close together. The skull is quite long, the brain capsule is built narrow and gracile and has a long parting line and a projecting back of the head.

    Nothing is short and plump as it is at the woodland Negro. Also are the bulges above the eyes mostly only little marked. But the nostrils are inflated [gebläht] in Negroid way, though the broadness of primitive vutton noses or Sudanid funnel noses is not reached. Also can the lips be called only toned down Negrid and don't reach the extreme bulging of Sudanid lips. The chin is strong, the ears are small. There is no prognathy.

    So there are on the one side certain tendencies to a Europoid face, but minor than at the Aethiopids. But on the other side the whole impression is quite Negro-like, because - besides of the skin colour - Nilotids often show, irrespective of the named Europoid single characteristics, angular coarse facial bones at men and a soft, full rounding of features at women. Especially the outline and the middle region of the face takes part here.

    Besides of the great height does the body show a great length of the extremities, and especially the great length of the forearms can be seen as primitive and Negrid characteristic. The women have, similar to the Aethiopids, half-ball breast with very small nipples and never show the hanging or goat's udder-like bud breat of so many actual Negrids. But the Nilotids' pelvis and the thin, almost calf-less lower legs and the quite short and especially flat feet are totally Negrid. In respect to the body, all in all the Negrid character predominates.

    Very clear is this also in the colour of the skin and the hair texture. Did the harmonization of the whole form took in face and figure still many Europoid ways, can be here found the very definite connection to the Negrids. The skin is deep brown-black, the Nilotids are probably the darkest Negroes of all.

    The closed connection of Negrid integumental characteristics with many Europoid elements shows the strength of the harmonization in a multiple-rooted variety of Hominids. The Nilotids are a good example of a body form group which went into being through splitting of characteristics and bastardization on the one side and selective harmonization on the other side. They are not at all disharmonical, but like of one piece.

    We can suppose that the today's special form of the Nilotids goes back to one proto-Sudanid and one proto-Aethiopid origin, thus to a very old racial contact which was followed by long-term, relative isolation. Still a question is of course the extraordinary high groth: luxuration or the integration of a third, old Europoid element, from oldest specialization forms of proto-Aethiopid strata?
    We see, that with the first grassland Negro form we entered an own specialization belt, but still did not leave the contact zone of Europids and Negrids.


    The Bantuids (Kafrids): The Bantuids are not in the same way a closed somatic form circle like other African races. They stream into the other African types in imperceptibly shaded form chains and broad mixing zones; they are spreaded over very wide areas and disturbed in their somatic building through numerous migrations.
    But it is clear that the great mass of the Bantu peoples outside of the jungle show a racial picture different from the other body-form groups of the Negrids.

    It maybe are less the things in common among themselves than more the differences to others which lead to the seperation as an independent group. The Bantuids are, similar to the Palae-Mongolids and Sibirids, a collective type with numerous local races and half-harmonized gautypes and besides also with racial shiftings. Also crisscross migrations had an effect against the fixing of somatic types.

    In the north, in east Africa, the rests of the crushed zone of the Palae-Negrids reach far into the core areas of the Bantuids. These woodland Negroes are the passive element which participates at the forming of the Bantuid type. But through this zone Europoid influenced race groups advanced since oldest days from the north again and again; they are the active element at the forming of the new type.

    It is at the last an area of very old race contacts with the result of a more or less balanced middle type (in which here the Palae-Negrid relicts of past race periods predominate, there the more active elements of younger periods), especially in east Africa, while in south Africa younger and older race mixtures (of Aethiopid waves and sprenkles of Australiform and Khoisanid elements) with the Bantuid substratum, the actual Negrid basis, are noticeable which partly cover up the picture.

    Thus the Bantuids all in all are divided into a coarser, older and more Negrid wing in the north and a younger, more Europoid and finer wing in the south; the latter area became more the advance zone of more active, younger elements.

    In many important characteristics the Bantuids stand between Nilotids and Palae-Negrids, but don't reach the high level of specialization of the Sudanids. They have a smaller height and shorter extremities and are lighter than the Nilotids, they also have a shorter nose and a lower face. But they are not as plump and stocky, with such a broad nose and as primitive as the Palae-Negrids.

    All Negrid characteristics can be found at the building of the body, especially at the building of pelvis, breast and back. The men have broad shoulders, are robust and have strong muscles, not the thin extremities of the Nilotids. Palae-Negrid blood shows itself through minor dolichocephaly and smaller height, through more coarseness of the features and plumper body structure. On the other side, Aethiopid strains lead to higher growth, longer face, sharper features and intensive growth of the beard.

    The Bantuid head is long and high, has a well-vaulted parting line, the back of the head is moderately projecting. Men have a tendency to the square form of the face, women tend to chubby-oval or round forms (partly through the cheekbones which project quite far to the sides and to the front). The chin is weaker than that of the Nilotids, but receding chins can be found usually only among women, and not as the rule. The eyeslit is quite small.

    The only little relief energy of the face is succeeded by the small, short and flat nose. The nostrils are strongly inflated, the tip is rounded, but not round. The lips of the big mouth show moderate bulging, real prognathy appears only moderately.

    The body shows not seldom short legs and - especially among women - a very long trunk. Both sexes show enormous bending of the lumbar vertebra and at the same a vaulted, hanging stomach, in contrary to the slim, straight figures of the Nilotids and Aethiopids. Bantuid characteristics are furthermore hanging breasts, thin calfs and flat feet - thus quite Negrid characteristics.

    The skin colour shows great variability, but especially because of younger mixtures. Basic Bantuid element is a moderately deep dark-brown.
    Europoid strain can be found above all especially among the Zulu and the Hereró.


    The Sudanids: In the (from north to south) narrow, but (from east to west) wide landstripe from Senegambia to Kordofan, a common and very characteristical type differentiates itself out of the mosaique of peoples and social groups. Within the Negrids this type shows the strongest marking of a couple of characteristics which are typical for the black race. This high-specialized type shows at its northern margin Europoid contact groups and especially superstrata. T

    o the south there are the more substrata respectively compact exclaves of an older and less specialized type of the black race, the more one comes to the coast and the great rain-forest belt: this can be traced back to the influence of the Palae-Negrids. This picture of zonal triple division and triple stratification appears in the whole western Sudanid area. In the central and east the social stratification is even rather stronger, and at the same time are the differences of types between the participating races stronger. But at the same time an extraordinarily far-reaching crushing of the body-form groups and pushing them mixed up occured. Thus the Sudanid living space is divided into two part areas: an eastern with a far-reaching crushing of types [Typenzertrümmerung] and troubled mosaique of peoples and a western with a clear layering of types and a triple racial structure.

    The Sudanid race is characterized through very high growth, robust body structure, extremely broad and inflated noses and extremely Negrid bulge lips, through prognathy amd very dark skin. The known dolichocephaly of all Negro races of the grassland belt is to be found, but the Sudanids differ from the other races in their higher degree of Negrid specialization.

    They are within the Negrids that what within the Europids the Nordics and within the Mongolids the East-Tungids are: the somatic climax of a race, the most Negrid of all Negrid forms. Race contact is given also among them, but for the forming of the new type, if at all, it doesn't contribute far as much as at the Nilotids and Bantuids. The Sudanid type has all in all many extreme and some primitive and theromorph features [theromorph primitivity = the general development of a race remained in characteristics on a more primitive level of Hominid evolution].

    The Sudanid skull capsule is long, narrow, high vaulted, with a strongly projecting back of the head. The cephalic index is between 73 and 77. The forehead is steep and narrow, often even very narrow, and narrows in the lateral contoures to the top. The face is big and quite long. The contoures come together downwards, so that the facial outline (including the forehead) appears not seldom rhombic, namely to the degree as the cheekbones, which are (more than at other Negrids) built also out to the front strongly, project more or less to the sides. The root of the nose is flat, striking is often the height of the upper eyefold, the eye is wet-shing and very dark.

    The bridge of the nose is bulky, quite low and broad, in profile usually straight, with a rounded tip. The nostrils are characterized by their special size, broadness and inflatedness, with often pronounced diagonal-oval forms. The inflated nostrils are mostly quite distinguished from the bridge, but they often pass over to it (funnel nose). Prognathy is always to be found, accompanied by an extraordinary thickness of the soft parts of the mouth area. The mouth itself is quite big, while the ear is small and gracile. The chin is soft, sometimes even receding.

    The building of the body is high, with a mighty thorax, broad shoulders and a strong, but proportionalized muscular system. The neck is slim and strong, not low as at the Palae-Negrids. The breasts are often conical, but mostly hanging. The extremities appear from a European point of view "well proportionalized", with the exception of the pelvises of the women which are a little narrow and the quite long forearms and lower legs. Primitive and theromorph characteristics can be found at the building of the body even less than at the facial features.

    The skin colour is dark, often even quite dark brown-black. The skin itself is bulging, dry and velvety.


    The Old Races of the Central Jungle Region

    The body-form groups of Africa which we regarded until now were more or less result of biodynamic processes, and they represent younger stages of constantly active forming processes within mankind. As most stabilized appear the Nilotids, as most disturbed the Bantuids (Kafrids), as most specialized the Sudanids. As passive and conservative element did the Palae-Negrids participate with a retarding effect at the forming of the younger and more specialized types.

    The Palae-Negrids are at the northern Sudanid as well as at the eastern Bantuid wing of the great Negrid contact bow under constant pressure of the more active races; their recent homeland is retreat area. They share their retreat area with a second, very primitive form: the African Pygmids. They are seen often as an even older stratum, as a relict of even older differenciation processes of mankind. In their most extreme margin position as so to speak preserved forming relict they are special form, not basic form, a side branch and variant which can be found with this special character only in the Negrid race circle.

    The Palae-Negrids: The central African jungle is divided into two linguistic areas: a nothern Sudan-speaking and a southern Bantu-speaking area, and the northern Palae-Negrids speak Sudan, the southern Bantu languages.

    The jungle Negro is only medium high and mostly only mesocephal or even brachycephal. With his relatively longer trunk and his short extremities, his plump and stocky building, his bulky funnel nose and the disharmonical body forms he appears as great contrast to the Nilotids. He also does not show the specialization of the Sudanids: the lips are less thick, the nose is or appears less broad and modelled through, the skin colour is lighter. Coarse and prognath is the men's face, flat, with a button nose and primitive that of the women. Just as the Palae-Mongolids, there is not yet taken advantage of the possibilities of development that are in the race. An old form.

    As greater somatic subgroups there are a wide-spreaded Congolesian and a less numerous Guinesian type; the Congolesian subrace seems more characteristical for the Palae-Negrids. The skull shows here plump forms and appears thick and big. The back is less vaulted, the forehead is steep and narrow. The facial outline is angular and more or less rectangular. The face is quite low. Very flat and broad is the root of the nose. The eye is only little big and quite dark. The cheekbones are a bit projecting and among women well padded. The bridge of the nose is low and straight, the tip blunt. The nostrils are only little distinguished, but quite broad, so that the face appears plump and flown apart. The mouth is very big, but bulging and prognathy are slighter than among the Sudanids. The ear is small.

    Among women not only the bridge of the nose, but the nose itself is saddled in and strongly turned to the top, so that it only is a broad and dull, button-like structure. This passes into a snout-like lip area which is pushed strongly forward to the front, from which then tub-like flat the chin region recedes again.

    At the Guinean subrace of the Palae-Negrids as the western outskirts of the Congolesian mass, the coarse and primitive characteristics appear weakened and especially the skull less plump and also less short.

    In spite of the strong muscular structure of the body, the impression of the Palae-Negrids' body is not an impression of strength, but of plumpness: relatively less height, short neck, angular shoulders and the clumsy trunk. Hands and feet are small. The women's breasts are limp and hanging, the cone form appears only sometimes and in very young years. The lumbar vertebra is strongly bent, women show on the one side a voluminous bottom and on the other side a strongly frontal vaulted stomach.
    The skin is dark brown, but also quite lighter shades appear.

    Grassland Negroes were partly pressed into the jungle and mixed partly with Palae-Negrids, especially in the east and south. On the other side numerous remnants of Palae-Negrid peoples remained in retreat areas in the grassland, or Palae-Negrids were even uprooted and driven into the grasslands. But all in all, dissolved splinters and remained rest groups are rather exceptions, while the actual mass of the Palae-Negrids, clearing peasants of the edges of the African forest, was pressed deeper and deeper into the jungle, until the densest thickets of the giant preventing wood absorbed them. Their living areas are relatively small clearings and circles, spreaded like islands in the endless ocean of the jungle, and their number is thus, compared with other African forms, only little.

    The Congolesian subrace of the Palae-Negrids is often brought into a narrow relationship with the Pygmids and seen as a contact race to these, but it is controversial if this applies for the racial status of the Palae-Negrids, while more or less strong Palae-Negrid-Pygmid mixtures happened.


    The African Pygmids (Bambutids):

    The biological position of the Pygmids lets at least recognize a connection to the Negrid race circle, so that they can be called a variant within the Negrid race. The tropical form of the Hominids, the Negrids, shows thus a stronger variability in groups of height than other races.

    The common bodily characteristics of the Pygmid collective form are: dwarf growth, curly hair, deep dark skin, also strong lumbar bend, moderately thick lips and a number of primitive (infantile) characteristics, such as steep forehead, little marked chin, round nose tips and inflated nostrils.

    The mostly moderately short head of the African Pygmids (Bambutids) is in relation to the small body quite big and appears bulky this way. Also is shortness of legs, generally biologically spoken, a morphological characteristic of forest forms. A steep, low forehead and quite broad lower jaw angle give also a heavy and plump looking to the low Bambutid face, which is emphasized through the most determinant formula element of the human body, through the nose. The nose of the African Pygmids is the biggest and coarsest of the whole circle of the Hominids. The broadness of the Bambutid nose is reached by no other race; and also is its height enormous, which is a difference to the higher-grown Negrids. The nose tip however is rounded.

    Totally un-Negrid are also the lips. Not even does stronger prognathy appear. The face is generally low and runded, the cheekbones are slightly projecting. The lower face is especially strong and the chin strongly receding. The immensely small (the height can sink among adult men down to 1.20 meters, and the group average never is higher than 1.50 meters), bud splendid muscular body is characterized through an extremely long trunk and very short legs. It is the most extreme contrast to the Nilotids. Short and low is also the Bambutid neck, broad and plump the trunk and angular (because of the muscles) the shoulders.

    Thus the African Pygmids have some characteristics in common with their higher-grown neighbour forms, other characteristics connect with those of Asian Pygmids, and again others are independent forms and form complexes.
    Last edited by Nordgau; Tuesday, March 9th, 2004 at 11:21 PM.
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    Post Re: Negrid Subraces

    The Congolesian subrace of the Palae-Negrids is often brought into a narrow relationship with the Pygmids and seen as a contact race to these, but it is controversial if this applies for the racial status of the Palae-Negrids, while more or less strong Palae-Negrid-Pygmid mixtures happened.
    I think they are at least a contact race but probably nothing else but a mixed form of primitive Negrids with Bambutids.

    In the part which describes the Nilotids it should be Nilotid and not Negrid.

    The skin is deep brown-black, the Negrids are probably the darkest Negroes of all.
    just a small mistake but I thought I must say it to make this description/translation perfect.

    Really great work Nordgau!

    I even think this should be published in as much Internet Fora as possible, especially the English speaking ones.

    Probably you or I have the time to write about v. Eickstedts "primitive-infantil-progressiv" scheme which is to me one of the best perspectives on human races and evolution, the evolutionary trends and future developments, changes in a positive and/or negative sence.
    Beside its errors, its still the best perspective theory I read so far. I'm working on that on my own too and try to fix his errors, but still, his theory is imo the best approximation so far.

    At least if its about physical appearance, although I believe that a) physical appearance is not unimportant and b) to other important features in most (not all) cases correlated.

    Great work! Thanks for the input!
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    Post Re: Negrid Subraces

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa
    Probably you or I have the time to write about v. Eickstedts "primitive-infantil-progressiv" scheme which is to me one of the best perspectives on human races and evolution, the evolutionary trends and future developments, changes in a positive and/or negative sence.
    Beside its errors, its still the best perspective theory I read so far. I'm working on that on my own too and try to fix his errors, but still, his theory is imo the best approximation so far.

    At least if its about physical appearance, although I believe that a) physical appearance is not unimportant and b) to other important features in most (not all) cases correlated.
    I am also very interested in hearing about Eickstedt's scheme. This sounds facinating.

    It's unfortunate that the excellent threads on Zyklothym and Schizothym types was lost in the crash. I have saved text files of Agrippa's posts on this, if anyone is interested in reading re-posts.

    I have been pondering the role if different types (and including gender differences) in human evolution. I think that the Zyklothym type might be a kind of social foundation of of the human species, that preserves groups, is conformist, goes with the flow, preserves communal values. I think this might be the more ancient type - Darwin said that humans survive as a species only because of our collective groupings.

    I thikn the possibly more recent, possibly truly "Homo sapiens sapiens" genes or types are more Schizothymic. I suspect they come from Northeast Africa, due to the leptosomic body build associated with this type (regardless of pigmient, which can change with mixing or selection pressures in hot climates). This type is less a part of the human herd/group - more solitary and can be iconoclastic, can be a leader or a criminal - but tends to "stick out." Not conformist. This type is maybe responsible for the "sapiens sapiens" technological push for progress that has been reshaping the species for perhaps the last 30,000 years. This type is more driven, aggressive, Faustian, expansive - and is most pronounced in males.

    Females tend all-around to be more conformist and also more "average" (there are far less female retards and geniuses than males of each extreme, for instance) - and also down to earth. Wives and mothers are often discouraging men from adventurous/dangerous behavior, encouraging them to come home to the family.

    Likewise, conformist people of both genders tend to maintain the day-to-day practical matters of life going, living their small human lives, and making more extremist endeavours (writing conciertos, exploring new territory, etc) possible.
    Last edited by Scoob; Wednesday, March 10th, 2004 at 12:42 AM.
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    Post Re: Negrid Subraces

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa
    In the part which describes the Nilotids it should be Nilotid and not Negrid.

    just a small mistake but I thought I must say it to make this description/translation perfect.
    Aah, indeed. Thanks for indicating that error. I went through it after typing it in, but little stuff always slips through. - Corrected now.

    Probably you or I have the time to write about v. Eickstedts "primitive-infantil-progressiv" scheme which is to me one of the best perspectives on human races and evolution, the evolutionary trends and future developments, changes in a positive and/or negative sence.
    Beside its errors, its still the best perspective theory I read so far. I'm working on that on my own too and try to fix his errors, but still, his theory is imo the best approximation so far.

    At least if its about physical appearance, although I believe that a) physical appearance is not unimportant and b) to other important features in most (not all) cases correlated.
    Yeah, I've also already thought of writing something longer about Eickstedt's concepts of racial primitivity and progressivism and the different forms of that all. That's highly captivating and one of the cores of his anthropological works, which is followed into various detailed aspects. But I hardly will have time for doing such in the next time, and as you said that you're already working on it, I'll leave first steps to this to you - at least if you planned here already something for next time -, if you don't mind.
    I also thought of the next what I wanted to do to give like this here a survey on Indianid subraces, but "next" means here probably not before April or May, as I won't find time earlier. The fuss that consumes most of the time is at least for me not so much the writing, writing-out or summarizing as such, but the translation and giving it in tolerably proper English.
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    Post Re: Negrid Subraces

    Yeah, I've also already thought of writing something longer about Eickstedt's concepts of racial primitivity and progressivism and the different forms of that all. That's highly captivating and one of the cores of his anthropological works, which is followed into various detailed aspects. But I hardly will have time for doing such in the next time, and as you said that you're already working on it, I'll leave first steps to this to you - at least if you planned here already something for next time -, if you don't mind.
    I also thought of the next what I wanted to do to give like this here a survey on Indianid subraces, but "next" means here probably not before April or May, as I won't find time earlier. The fuss that consumes most of the time is at least for me not so much the writing, writing-out or summarizing as such, but the translation and giving it in tolerably proper English.
    I know thats hard work and I will probably do a little bit in the next time, but for me its the same...such things need much more time and motivation than regular postings.

    BTW, do you have his books on your own? I just had it from the library...

    @Scoob: It was annoying for me to lose all this stuff because I wanted to build up the whole scheme of Kretschmer and I already did some work for it.
    I think his scheme is really important to understand differences in temperament not caused by intelligence, education or race. (race at least for a 1:1 comparison, f.e. Nordid = schizothym is wrong, although the percentage might be higher)

    Kretschmer had a 3rd type, he called it viscoes and this type is mainly associated in his scheme with the Athletic build, which is not just between Leptosomic and Pyknish but has its own qualities.

    IMO this is the primary psychological type in human evolution.

    The Zyklothym is typical for higher social systems in which opportunists, big talkers, people with "high EQ", which socialize easy and try to avoid to much risks without being coward are maybe not the optimum for the community in every respect (in some they are very important because they often stabilize the system and try to balance things) but have a good chance to survive in a complex and social system.

    F.e. a good soldier and officer, aggressive politician or racial theoretician might be more effective sometimes, but oftentimes they cause more damage than benefit, at least if its about THEMSELVES!

    If a group of such individuals, a homogenous group of 100 people would be on the way as herders or even hunters and gatherers on a higher level, they might have some advantage vs. another group, but in a complex social system the achievement or risk of one might help others too (f.e. non-fanatics) but the bad result primarily harm those which are fanatics...so the selection in more progressive, individualistic and complex social systems is oftentimes against their best (or at least most fanatic) members.

    Especially because I mentioned that they are very impressionable in their youth, they adopt often the goals of the society but do not change them later too much...

    Some examples:
    Young intelligent and active officers in modern wars...high dead rates...
    creative scientists...low birthrates...
    Successful business women...low birthrates...

    So the more "modern" and bigger system favors not always those which do most for it.
    At least not if its about reproductive success, especially in the liberal system.

    The Zyklothymes are good in communication, socializing and making alliances. They can motivate themselves good with their own emotions and are able to get along even in hard times, at least as long as they dont get depressive, which usually is their main weakness.
    But even then the rates of suicide are not really so much higher in Zyklothyms because just certain subtypes are primarily prone to this.

    From an evolutionary point of view I would guess it was like that:

    Viscoes Athletics with their stable, usually not to emotional and creative but quite active behaviour dominated in hunter-gatherer groups.

    Schizothyms came up in certain regions, but mainly because of the advantages of their body build and real Schizothymes AND Zyklothymes were low in numbers.

    Schizothymes had their big time when culture was further developed, especially in herder groups they really dominate.

    Zyklothyms have the biggest advantage in urban cultures, in which their strength can lead to success (communication, socializing, not too much risk, not being fanatic, trying to balance) and their weaknesses are redeemed by the other group members.

    I'm quite sure that from the time of the Neolithicum the numbers of Zyklothyms/Pyknish types grew dramatically.
    Even more in modern times which were highly contraselective to extreme Schizothyms, not just because of the social system, but also because of diseases in the urban areas to which they are very vulnerable (f.e. Tuberkulosis)

    So all 3 types exist in almost every group, but if you look at certain socio-economic groups/times, social groups etc. you can clearly see that all 3 types have their qualities and some times favor this more and some this...

    But one thing is for sure, the Pyknish type is very good adapted to urban life, the Schizothym type usually need structures to be effective.

    Of course he is effective, but especially the more intelligent types of the Schizothyms are even too effective...they do nothing else than working for system, they dont even raise enough children on their own.

    Thats a problem of all more intelligent people, but especially of a certain Schizothyme type if he has no strong ideology because of his instinctive insecurity, his vulnerability to substitution (for his social incompetence in the mass society) and for the current ideology because he wants oftentimes one thing before everything else - having success.

    Being raised in this systems means for many of them if they have no traumatic experiences which could change their view they got from childhood means for them more than for any other group to LIVE AND BELIEVE THE VALUES even against their instincts!

    F.e. love the ugly ones, love the Negroes, sacrifice family and other values for career, earn money, have "fun" in the way society wants it (f.e. travelling, art, music, free sex, buy a dog, do this, buy that...but dont think too much about the system = as long as they have success - they usually won't with some exceptions, they can get the "tunnel view" easily.

    Zyklothyms dont get that "tunnel view" that easily...in fact they see so much here and there that they oftentimes can see everything, but lack the hard consequence of Schizothyms if they once see a assumed "truth". F.e. religious fanatics...as soon es they see "the truth" they want that everyone see it, in fact they HAVE TO SEE IT!

    Thats usually not the Zyklothym view...as long as they are not manic of course. (Many preachers are manic)

    Of course some of the greated hypocrits were Schizothymes, their intelligence and scrupolosity can be deadly, but the most can be only that bad if they adapted a certain value system for themselves...

    Just think about some liberals which are nothing else than exploiters in fact...
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    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa
    I know thats hard work and I will probably do a little bit in the next time, but for me its the same...such things need much more time and motivation than regular postings.

    BTW, do you have his books on your own? I just had it from the library...
    I've got a couple of books from him on my own, others only from the library (which I partly photocopied then for me).
    Man ſei Held oder Heiliger. In der Mitte liegt nicht die Weisheit, ſondern die Alltäglichkeit.

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    Exclamation ''NEGRIDIS'' (with map showing races in Afrika)

    pictures :

    NEGRIDIS

    1-Nilotics
    2-Silvestri
    3-Batwa
    4 , 5 -Sudanese

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    Post Description of the Aethiopid type in German anthropology

    Aethiopids are in German anthropology (typical form):

    Body: tall bis very tall, slender, narrow hips, long extremities, slender muscles, hands narrow with long fingers, feets narrow, low sexual dimorphism, female breast hemispheric, high position.

    Head and face: Dolichocephalic, high forehead often with distinct forehead humps (vaulted), face high-narrow, almost no prognathy, nose high-narrow, often convex to straight, relative narrow nose tip, slender, slightly vaulted nostrils, nose is high rooted, strong chin, full lips.

    Hairs: Scanty body hair, beard weak, dense hair of the head from tight-wavy to frizzy, black.

    Skin: towards South darker, relatively fair in Ethiopians, in social upper class of the Tigre, Amhara and in the Eastern Somalis, darkest in the Southern Masai, mostly with red-brown color.

    Eyes: Dark brown.
    Author: Christian Vogel (translated) in Biologie in Stichworten, Band V.
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    Standard Negroid Types

    .
    Last edited by Digitalseal; Friday, May 19th, 2006 at 06:28 PM.

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    AW: Standard Negrid types

    Here can be found more pictures and maps, mostly going after Biasutti: http://www.africarte.it/foto-storiche/foto_storiche.htm

    Important to compare with Pictures of the Racial Types of the World (Fischer Lexikon - Anthropologie)

    Actually the image with the three types shows three different tendencies in the same population (Zande tribe), going in the direction of:

    a) Sudanid
    b) Palaenegrid (Sylvestre = Negrid type of the forests) and
    c) Aethiopid, with the later being not the best example though still going in that direction.


    Typical Sudanids:


    Typical Central Palaenegrids:



    Map of the racial types of Africa:
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