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Thread: Canadian Parliament recognizes Quebec

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    Canadian Parliament recognizes Quebec

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061128/.../canada_quebec

    "TORONTO - Parliament formally recognized Quebec as a nation within Canada Monday, a symbolic gesture that has led to a Cabinet resignation and ignited concerns over a renewed push for the French-speaking province's independence.


    The motion presented by Conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harper, which calls Quebec a nation within a united Canada, is largely symbolic in that it requires no constitutional amendment or change of law. The opposition Liberals and New Democrats supported the motion, so it passed easily through the House of Commons.

    It was devised by Harper to pre-empt a similar attempt by the Bloc Quebecois, the separatist party in Parliament that represents Quebec, whose members also reluctantly backed the resolution once they realized they had been outflanked by Harper.

    The Tories are lagging in popularity in Quebec and observers say Harper hopes that the formal recognition will win him favor among its traditionally liberal voters.

    "This government believes strongly that the time has come for national reconciliation," Harper told the House of Commons hours before the Monday night vote.

    But others fear the recognition will be divisive, re-igniting hope among Quebec separatists for an independent nation and other ethnic and indigenous groups to demand similar nationhood.

    Michael Chong resigned earlier in the day as the intergovernmental affairs minister, saying he couldn't accept the "ethnic nationalism" implicit in Harper's historic initiative.

    "I believe in this great country of ours and I believe in one nation, undivided, called Canada, based on civic and not ethnic nationalism," he said.

    Transport Minister Lawrence Cannon, Harper's political lieutenant in Quebec, has insisted the Tory recognition of a Quebecois nation is purely symbolic, with no legal or constitutional consequences.

    The people of Quebec have twice voted down referendums seeking independence from Canada; the last one narrowly defeated in 1995. Though there are some in Quebec still longing for sovereignty, most Quebecois wish to remain an integral part of Canada."

    What do the Canadians have to say about all this?

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    Re: Canadian Parliament recognizes Quebec

    I don't know what to think really. The French as an organized group of people have always been pestering the Canadian government since they were accepted into Federation in days of yore. By rights, the French shouldn't have even been permitted a place to call their own within Canada and now we're witnessing the balkanization of Canada right before our eyes. And let's get real here; once the French get their independance, then the western provinces will most likely fight for theirs, and eventually all the Canadian provinces will split and the Federation will collapse. In my opinion, Canada died long ago with the adoption of that pathetic Maple Leaf flag, and that horribly politically correct anthem named "O Canada".. with nothing but ink on paper keeping the Federation afloat. Most Canadians no longer identify themselves as "Canadians", rather, the country from which their anscestors were spawned because of this fact.

    It'll be very interesting to see what's to come in the future. Perhaps my children will be calling their country "Ontario" sometime in the horizon, or perhaps not. Only God knows. If this scenario occurs, I'll be moving out east where true Old Canadian tradition still has a chance of enduring the futher destruction of our great and noble heritage which most Canadians cannot recall, or refuse to since they can't understand English adequately enough.

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    Re: Canadian Parliament recognizes Quebec

    Quote Originally Posted by Sùilean Dubh View Post
    our great and noble heritage which most Canadians cannot recall, or refuse to since they can't understand English adequately enough.
    How do you mean that? Immigrants can't understand English, or the ability of native English speakers has declined? That the Franco-Canadians' English is not perfect should be no wonder.

    As everybody knows here, I am not that close friend of the French. But to ask them to nurture their kids with British tradition is ridiculous.

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    Why the heck not? This Nation was built upon such traditions. Would you ask an immigrant from France coming to Germany to keep his own culture, or to embrace German culture? It wouldn't seem appropriate to keep his own, now would it?

    My family has roots in France (amoung other countries), and when they came to America, and ultimately Canada, they had no problems adapting and assimilating into British culture. Are you trying to make the argument that it is impossible to intergrate the French into British culture because of the seemingly instinctive feud between the two peoples? If so, my best advice to you and those like you is this: Get past it. Work towards a better, more productive future for Europeans and towards the safeguard of all cultures God has charged us to protect.

    And to answer your first question, it is because of immigrants from third world shit-holes. In order to come to Canada, you should be able to converse with the native public fluently in order to gain any possibly entry into the country. Though if I had my way, I'd expell all third world non-europeans and prevent any from entering in the first place. And as with the Francos, there is a vast population within Quebec who know English very well, but refuse to speak it and are very neglectful to those who do. I don't think it's much to ask of people "When in Rome, do as the Romans".

    Don't you agree?
    Last edited by Oswiu; Wednesday, November 29th, 2006 at 02:42 AM.

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    Re: Canadian Parliament recognizes Quebec

    Quote Originally Posted by Sùilean Dubh View Post
    And to answer your first question, it is because of immigrants from third world shit-holes. In order to come to Canada, you should be able to converse with the native public fluently in order to gain any possibly entry into the country. Though if I had my way, I'd expell all third world non-europeans and prevent any from entering in the first place. And as with the Francos, there is a vast population within Quebec who know English very well, but refuse to speak it and are very neglectful to those who do. I don't think it's much to ask of people "When in Rome, do as the Romans".

    Don't you agree?
    All right, when in Rome, I will do my best with Italian, when in Vancouver I will use English, and when in Quebec, I will try and get by with my wretched French ability.

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    Re: Canadian Parliament recognizes Quebec

    Quote Originally Posted by Sùilean Dubh View Post
    I don't think it's much to ask of people "When in Rome, do as the Romans".

    Don't you agree?
    The thing is that in Québec you're not on the Queen's territories anymore. Our people were the first to explore and settle up north, we founded the first city of North America (Mexico excluded), we worked hard for centuries to stand through hellish winters and feed our families. We owe nothing to Englishmen. They turned our land into their own, they made us part of Canada. If someday we secede, I hope no tear will be shed by English-Canadians.

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    Re: Canadian Parliament recognizes Quebec

    Quote Originally Posted by Patriote View Post
    The thing is that in Québec you're not on the Queen's territories anymore. Our people were the first to explore and settle up north, we founded the first city of North America (Mexico excluded), we worked hard for centuries to stand through hellish winters and feed our families. We owe nothing to Englishmen. They turned our land into their own, they made us part of Canada. If someday we secede, I hope no tear will be shed by English-Canadians.
    You know what, you're right. The French were the first here, but by your logic, the Indians have a much better claim to the land that we both do, and we both know that it is rediculous. When the Anglos and Francos went to war, the Francos lost, and if it wasn't for Britain's reasonable decency then the French wouldn't be allowed in Canada. The English should've drove the French to the sea, then maybe Canada wouldn't be in the crisis it is now. I'd say you owe the English that much at least. The French lost the war, and when you lose wars - you lose turf. That's the way it is, the way it's always been, and it'll remain that way to the end of this Earth. I have little doubt that Quebec will actually succeed, but I am sure if Quebec stops exporting Maple Syrup to Canada, the rest of us will survive.

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    Re: Canadian Parliament recognizes Quebec

    Quote Originally Posted by Sùilean Dubh View Post
    You know what, you're right. The French were the first here, but by your logic, the Indians have a much better claim to the land that we both do, and we both know that it is rediculous. When the Anglos and Francos went to war, the Francos lost, and if it wasn't for Britain's reasonable decency then the French wouldn't be allowed in Canada. The English should've drove the French to the sea, then maybe Canada wouldn't be in the crisis it is now. I'd say you owe the English that much at least. The French lost the war, and when you lose wars - you lose turf. That's the way it is, the way it's always been, and it'll remain that way to the end of this Earth. I have little doubt that Quebec will actually succeed, but I am sure if Quebec stops exporting Maple Syrup to Canada, the rest of us will survive.
    Anglos and Francos were fighting about the control of the immense territories West of the colonies much more than control of the St-Lawrence valley. The sending back of French settlers in Europe was never considered (that's what I learned, at least) the same way that colonial wars almost never led to the rejection of colonizers. Losing the war for North America made the French lost the bigger part of the continent they possessed up to that point, but that was it.

    The Crisis Canada experiences right now begun with the fleeing Loyalists settling in Ontario, that was my point. All in all, We Francos were no huge deal in the political shaping of this country.

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    Re: Canadian Parliament recognizes Quebec

    Quote Originally Posted by Patriote View Post
    The Crisis Canada experiences right now begun with the fleeing Loyalists settling in Ontario, that was my point. All in all, We Francos were no huge deal in the political shaping of this country.
    Oh no? Last time I checked, Canadians were a bilingual people? Many people (including very close friends of mine) were denied jobs at airports and federal property because they didn't know how to speak French good enough, and this is in English-Canada. Does our officials in parliament not conduct buisness in the House of Commons speaking both English and French? How's that for the "shaping" of this Country?

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    Re: Canadian Parliament recognizes Quebec

    Quote Originally Posted by Sùilean Dubh View Post
    Oh no? Last time I checked, Canadians were a bilingual people? Many people (including very close friends of mine) were denied jobs at airports and federal property because they didn't know how to speak French good enough, and this is in English-Canada. Does our officials in parliament not conduct buisness in the House of Commons speaking both English and French? How's that for the "shaping" of this Country?
    By shaping country, I meant institutions, parliament, which were forced by British government until 1867 and since then were made partially against French-canadians. The billingual laws are recent and, overall, superficial considering the poor quality of service in French in many federal institutions all across Canada. If your friends never got hired because of their French, they surely lacked other skills because one can easily manage to get a federal job without knowing French (I experienced many encounters with agents hardly telling me their knowledge of French was pretty much nihil)

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