Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 19

Thread: Between Sapiens and Neanderthalensis and Erectus

  1. #1
    Disinterested
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Last Online
    Tuesday, September 13th, 2005 @ 09:17 PM
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    Gender
    Politics
    Folkish
    Posts
    1,403
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4
    Thanked in
    2 Posts

    Post Between Sapiens and Neanderthalensis and Erectus

    Some people may hear species names of Homo, that they mignt find confusing, so I have described them here. Many of these names for Homo are rarely used, and use of them can be interchangable between a species, a subspecies of erectus or a subspecies of sapiens. All these forms appear to be closer to us than to Asian erectus, but I have excluded moderns and neanderthals. Often soloensis, rhodesiensis and especially heidelbergensis are used to cover various, archaic forms, and the name "Homo sapiens archaicus" is used in a similar way. At least some of these show multiregionalism with each other, just as modern races interbreed. Since I am doing this list to help understand modern racial origins, I have not listed true Asian erectus (SNG, ZKD etc) or the early African Homo. I may be unaware of other names for these hominids.

    helmei (Florisbad) Dreyer 1935
    idaltu (Herto) White et al 2003
    antecessor (Gran Dolina level TD6) Bermudez de Castro et al 1997
    lantianensis or gongwanglingensis (Gongwangling) Wu/Woo 1964
    daliensis (Dali) Wu Xinzhi 1981
    mauretanicus (Ternefine) Arambourg 1954
    tautavelensis (Arago) de Lumley and de Lumley 1979
    paleohungaricus (Vertesszolos) Thoma 1966
    steinheimensis (Steinheim) Berckhemer 1934
    bilzingslebensis (Bilzingsleben) Vlcek 1978
    petraloniensis (Petralona) Poulianos 1967
    heidelbergensis (Mauer) Schoetensack 1908
    soloensis (Ngangdong) Oppenoort 1932
    narmadensis (Narmada) Sonakia 1984
    rhodesiensis (Kabwe) Woodward 1921
    palestinus (Qafzeh) McCown and Keith 1932
    njarensis (Eyasi) Reck and Kohl-Larsen 1936
    kanamensis (Kanam) Leakey 1935
    caprensis (Ceprano) Callegni et al 2003
    reilingensis (Reilingen) Czarnetski 1989
    Last edited by morfrain_encilgar; Thursday, February 10th, 2005 at 08:46 PM.

  2. #2
    Funding Member
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member


    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Last Online
    Friday, September 5th, 2008 @ 06:36 AM
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    California California
    Gender
    Family
    Married
    Posts
    4,095
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    17
    Thanked in
    16 Posts

    Post Re: Between sapiens and neanderthalensis and erectus

    I want to see someone fit the Rhodesian skull and extra-cranial material into a framework of H. sapiens or erectus. Please, someone, make this monster make sense.

  3. #3
    Disinterested
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Last Online
    Tuesday, September 13th, 2005 @ 09:17 PM
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    Gender
    Politics
    Folkish
    Posts
    1,403
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4
    Thanked in
    2 Posts

    Post Re: Between sapiens and neanderthalensis and erectus

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Solar Wolff
    I want to see someone fit the Rhodesian skull and extra-cranial material into a framework of H. sapiens or erectus. Please, someone, make this monster make sense.
    I think Kabwe represents a hybrid between a form on the lineage leading to moderns, with a more archaic race (or species) associated with the African early MSA. Kabwe is associated with Sangoan, which is derived from the Acheulian, tool industry.
    Last edited by morfrain_encilgar; Tuesday, April 6th, 2004 at 11:53 AM.

  4. #4
    Funding Member
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member


    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Last Online
    Friday, September 5th, 2008 @ 06:36 AM
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    California California
    Gender
    Family
    Married
    Posts
    4,095
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    17
    Thanked in
    16 Posts

    Post Re: Between sapiens and neanderthalensis and erectus

    If the Rhodesian material is a hybrid between a sapiens and non-sapiens, to what species did the non-sapiens portion belong. Also, by what reasoning do you attribute sapiens ancestry to any of it?

  5. #5
    Disinterested
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Last Online
    Tuesday, September 13th, 2005 @ 09:17 PM
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    Gender
    Politics
    Folkish
    Posts
    1,403
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4
    Thanked in
    2 Posts

    Post Re: Between sapiens and neanderthalensis and erectus

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Solar Wolff
    If the Rhodesian material is a hybrid between a sapiens and non-sapiens, to what species did the non-sapiens portion belong. Also, by what reasoning do you attribute sapiens ancestry to any of it?
    I would say that the non-sapiens ancestry is from an archaic of the grade that some call "heidelbergensis". But, I can't say properly at the moment why I attribute sapiens ancestry to Kabwe, sorry.

  6. #6
    Funding Member
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member


    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Last Online
    Friday, September 5th, 2008 @ 06:36 AM
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    California California
    Gender
    Family
    Married
    Posts
    4,095
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    17
    Thanked in
    16 Posts

    Post Re: Between sapiens and neanderthalensis and erectus

    As I recall, the Broken Hill skull has no jaw and the Heidelberg jaw is only a jaw. So, the question is: do they matchup or are they close? It seems to me that someone made this comparison somewhere.

  7. #7
    Disinterested
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Last Online
    Tuesday, September 13th, 2005 @ 09:17 PM
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    Gender
    Politics
    Folkish
    Posts
    1,403
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4
    Thanked in
    2 Posts

    Post Re: Between sapiens and neanderthalensis and erectus

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Solar Wolff
    As I recall, the Broken Hill skull has no jaw and the Heidelberg jaw is only a jaw. So, the question is: do they matchup or are they close? It seems to me that someone made this comparison somewhere.
    I was referring to heidelbergensis as it is used to describe a "grade", not a lineage. In this sense all that is requied is a lack of shared characters with more modern lineages, and more shared characters than with erectus.

  8. #8
    Funding Member
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member


    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Last Online
    Friday, September 5th, 2008 @ 06:36 AM
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    California California
    Gender
    Family
    Married
    Posts
    4,095
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    17
    Thanked in
    16 Posts

    Post Re: Between sapiens and neanderthalensis and erectus

    This is the whole problem with "grades". If they don't imply genetic relationship, then of what use are they? Your word "linage" does imply genetic relationship, at least in my mind. Grade may imply a set of morphological characteristics but, again, if they have no basis or an unproven basis in an actual genetic relationship, then don't these grade designations only serve to confuse matters?

  9. #9
    Disinterested
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Last Online
    Tuesday, September 13th, 2005 @ 09:17 PM
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    Gender
    Politics
    Folkish
    Posts
    1,403
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4
    Thanked in
    2 Posts

    Post Re: Between sapiens and neanderthalensis and erectus

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Solar Wolff
    This is the whole problem with "grades". If they don't imply genetic relationship, then of what use are they? Your word "linage" does imply genetic relationship, at least in my mind. Grade may imply a set of morphological characteristics but, again, if they have no basis or an unproven basis in an actual genetic relationship, then don't these grade designations only serve to confuse matters?

    Yes, but that is the only way to describe this in this case. A grade here shares common ancestry but does not include the descendants.

  10. #10
    Funding Member
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member


    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Last Online
    Friday, September 5th, 2008 @ 06:36 AM
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    California California
    Gender
    Family
    Married
    Posts
    4,095
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    17
    Thanked in
    16 Posts

    Post Re: Between sapiens and neanderthalensis and erectus

    I think the biggest problem in Anthropology is anthropologists who make distictions, using Latin wording, which have no meaning in biology. Somehow, Anthropology and Biology must come together. Recently, I saw Meve Leakey (or however her name is spelled) doing just what her husband and father-in-law did for years, this same trick of giving everything she finds a new Latin name. Latin names ought to mean something and that "something" means something phylogenetic.

    An anthropologist once told me that "we" are trained to "follow along" (in her words) but not to do the research ourselves. This was in 1975. Everything which has happened since has only make her statement stronger. I love Anthropology, but if I had to do it over again, I would have followed a science of more rigor and used this to further anthropological work.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Were Australoids first considered Homo Erectus?
    By Digitalseal in forum Australoid
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: Tuesday, February 13th, 2007, 07:07 AM
  2. Replies: 13
    Last Post: Friday, January 19th, 2007, 08:40 PM
  3. Are Aborigines Homo Sapiens Sapiens?
    By OdinThor in forum Anthropogeny & Ethnogenesis
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: Monday, July 24th, 2006, 04:53 AM
  4. Do you believe in the existence of the H. Sapiens Sapiens Subspecies?
    By Digitalseal in forum General Anthropology
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Wednesday, July 5th, 2006, 06:43 PM
  5. Homo neanderthalensis
    By Tryggvi in forum Paleoanthropology
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Thursday, November 3rd, 2005, 01:39 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •