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Thread: Something is Wrong

  1. #1
    Senior Member Imperial Wizard's Avatar
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    Cool Something is Wrong

    Something must be fundamentally wrong with the way we choose our candidates for elected office. The idea is that both poilitical parties are supossed to present their best and brightest candidates and we the electorate pick between good candidiates, but that is not happening.

    These days we look at the candidates we are disppointed with the choices and end up looking for the least worst candidate to vote for. Many people voted against the incumbent because they are disgusted with the people in power.

    This needs to change. I'm not sure how, but we need to change something in the political system to attact and elect good candidates.

    Any ideas?


    I.W.

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    Re: Something is Wrong

    I like the idea of having a "none of the above" option to be given at the polls for every race in an election. That way a voter could put himself on record as not consenting to the above candidates instead of just staying at home. I read this somewhere recently. Very small step but I like it.

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    Re: Something is Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperial Wizard View Post
    Something must be fundamentally wrong with the way we choose our candidates for elected office. The idea is that both poilitical parties are supossed to present their best and brightest candidates and we the electorate pick between good candidiates, but that is not happening.

    These days we look at the candidates we are disppointed with the choices and end up looking for the least worst candidate to vote for. Many people voted against the incumbent because they are disgusted with the people in power.
    The way you put it ("these days...") suggests, that all this is a rather recent development, or misdevelopment, of a once fully agreeable state of affairs. So, have you been satisfied with your electable candidates, say, ten years ago?

    Do you think NcNamarra was the right man for the Secretary of Defence office, who later admitted that in the moment he declared war to Vietnam, he didn't know where Vietnam is located?

    Well, I can honestly tell you that since I am in this world as a thinking - and that means a political - being, I was never ever "satisfied" with "my" canditates. In fact, they never have been "mine".

    And from what I have read I got, that thinking Germans were never satisfied with any "canditates" from any "parties" since this strange system of fully "responsible representatives" was introduced in Germany in 1918/19.

    The elected individuals are neither responsible to anybody, no matter what they do, nor are they "representative" of anybody, no matter what party they are from.
    This needs to change. I'm not sure how, but we need to change something in the political system to attact and elect good candidates.
    Surely you know the famous sentence of Churchill that "democracy is the worst order, except for all other orders that have been tried already"?

    Once, in his "Second World War" he mentions a youthful, promising candidate for the House of Commons and remarks "I brought him into Parliament". When I read this, it struck me: how could he, Churchill, "bring" another person "into" parliament? Aren't they elected by the electorate?? Is Churchill - and persons like him - influencing in some or the other way the elections???

    These are just innocent questions...
    Any ideas?
    I slightly differ from Churchill's stance: I agree that "democracy" is worst of all, yet I hold, if you once have detected something is foul, you must dump it.
    Last edited by Spjabork; Tuesday, November 14th, 2006 at 09:10 AM.

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    Re: Something is Wrong

    As Hitler pointed out, a democracy is great for about 20 minutes. After 20 minutes, it is subverted by money. Campaign contributions, bribes, corrupt the system.

    Spjobork's comments about Robert McNamarra open old wounds (although I thank him for making us face reality). Back in Kennedy times, Robert McNamarra was called one of "the best and brightest". Yes, he did lead us down the Vietnam road into misery, knowing all the time we could not win that war. He is and remains a war criminal of the intellectual sort to my generation. I almost cried when I heard all his admissions, really!!! My high school friends died because of their patriotism, optimism, and belief in the correctness of their elders.

    This just goes to highlight the fact, the forgotten fact, that resignation can be an honorable option and sometimes the only honorable option. Robert McNamarra's look alike and talk alike, Donald Rumsfeld never learned this basic lesson of life.

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    Re: Something is Wrong

    The reason we only get the “corporate elite” of the Republicans and the “social sciences elite” of the Democrats to choose from in our elections because no one else has the media backing or the money to run a real campaign in the US. This way only the wealthy elites get to make the laws and they like things that way.

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    Re: Something is Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by nooneatall View Post
    The reason we only get the “corporate elite” of the Republicans and the “social sciences elite” of the Democrats to choose from in our elections because no one else has the media backing or the money to run a real campaign in the US. This way only the wealthy elites get to make the laws and they like things that way.
    Well, I presuppose that we acknowledge the bare necessity of "higher government".

    It is a nice idea that has been brought forward by radical friends of Germanic freedom and self-determination, to abolish all authorites above county-level.

    But we are not alone in this world. If the Germanics would do that, they could not enjoy their then gained freedom for long. It would mean political suicide. And in a short time.

    We do need great and strong frames within which our privacy only can flourish. Entities like Russia or China or India can not be dealt with county-level might & main.

    The "dualist" system, introduced in England in 1660, confirmed in the USA in 1787, has its points.

    It is actually a stabilizing factor, insofar as it canalizes hopes & hatreds into a "constructive" direction. I.e. people who are angry with what is now will nevertheless not strive to change the whole frame, for they are looking forward to their "time" within that frame.

    All the "monist" systems sooner or later come to the point of succession, for which they are always poorly prepared, and which brings them regularly and inevitably to utter instability.

    But the flaw of the dualist system is its connection with two - and only two - party machineries, which more and more do not work "on behalf" of anything, but become the system itselves.

    If democracy had to be taken seriously, it had to emerge from the basis.

    The basic constituencies should not exceed one thousand electors. The whole country can be devided into such "thousandships". These would elect their face-to-face representatives, which would form a higher body of electors.

    If we reckon with 200 million whites in the USA, these should elect amongst themselves their 200 thousand worthiest. These, then, should elect their 200 most able and trustworthiest men.

    These 200 can form the supreme legislative body and bestow the Best of them with Supreme Command in case of emergency.

    The model can be adapted and refined, of course.

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    Re: Something is Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Spjabork View Post
    Well, I presuppose that we acknowledge the bare necessity of "higher government".

    It is a nice idea that has been brought forward by radical friends of Germanic freedom and self-determination, to abolish all authorites above county-level.

    But we are not alone in this world. If the Germanics would do that, they could not enjoy their then gained freedom for long. It would mean political suicide. And in a short time.
    What you say rings a bell. Partly out of the EU, there have been plans for Regional Government thoughout England and the final break up of the old British Union. It is generally argued that these smaller regions would be good at handling local things & might even feel cosy. But the counter-argument is that they would be more easily picked off and over-ruled by the EU bureaucracy. In the event, proposals for the most "advanced" of the regions ( as of regional organization) were roundly defeated by their electorate. The plans have been quietly hidden away !

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    Re: Something is Wrong

    Suggestions for improving the system (each to be considered separately):

    1) Allow more parties to enter the mainstream, so that the dualists aren't just advocating nothing more than their own continuation.

    2) Go back to the issue-based approach to American politics that reigned supreme before the beginning of the 20th century. Of course, since that approach was driven by state issues rather than federal issues, we would have to strongly decentralize the government — we'd probably have to ditch the 14th and 17th amendments (both of which are illegal anyway).

    3) Reduce the amount of democracy in the system — maybe even all the way back to the point established by the 1787 Constitution.

    4) Vastly improve public education so that the demos is actually fit for the kratia. Each future voter should understand the rudiments of American government, economics, banking and monetary policy, military strategy, diplomacy, political theory, rhetoric, logic, international politics, comparative politics, and so forth. I don't know about the rest of the United Statesians here, but I had a semester each of the first two in high school and absolutely none of the rest in my whole public school career. Instead of using state-funded education to equip our future rulers to rule (the way every other system of government would), we use it to train them to get jobs. Vocational training should be done some other way — public education should be about strengthening democracy.

    5) Follow Hans Hoppe's advice and ditch democracy altogether in favor of monarchy (and I mean real monarchy). Or go all the way and allow full competition for the provision of governmental services.



    Quote Originally Posted by Spjabork View Post
    The basic constituencies should not exceed one thousand electors. The whole country can be devided into such "thousandships". These would elect their face-to-face representatives, which would form a higher body of electors.

    If we reckon with 200 million whites in the USA, these should elect amongst themselves their 200 thousand worthiest. These, then, should elect their 200 most able and trustworthiest men.

    These 200 can form the supreme legislative body and bestow the Best of them with Supreme Command in case of emergency.

    The model can be adapted and refined, of course.
    This basic idea is a great suggestion, and it would be a lot closer to the old Anglo-Saxon model that the Founding Fathers were trying to emulate.



    Quote Originally Posted by darthantares
    I like the idea of having a "none of the above" option to be given at the polls for every race in an election. That way a voter could put himself on record as not consenting to the above candidates instead of just staying at home. I read this somewhere recently. Very small step but I like it.
    This is also a good idea. I would favor saying that a winner would need to get a majority of all votes cast, including the none-of-the-aboves, and that if no one succeeded in gaining a majority, a new election would have to be held with new candidates until someone actually won.

  9. #9
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    Re: Something is Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperial Wizard View Post
    Something must be fundamentally wrong with the way we choose our candidates for elected office. The idea is that both poilitical parties are supossed to present their best and brightest candidates and we the electorate pick between good candidiates, but that is not happening.

    These days we look at the candidates we are disppointed with the choices and end up looking for the least worst candidate to vote for. Many people voted against the incumbent because they are disgusted with the people in power.

    This needs to change. I'm not sure how, but we need to change something in the political system to attact and elect good candidates.

    Any ideas?

    Campaign Finance Reform.


    I.W.

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    Question Sv: Something is Wrong

    I know - from conversations with Americans - that republicans and democrats are the only two that "count".

    But I still want to know:

    1. How many candidates are running for president?

    along with

    2. a straight to the point description of each of them from a political point of view.

    Why am I asking? Because in Sweden, most people say that a vote on any of the parties currently in parliament is a vote that counts, whereas anything else does not count. What I say is: Well, if everyone thinks the way you do, then effectively you're right, but that doesn't mean you're right.

    The only vote that counts for me is a vote for the alternative that makes me feel proud and happy - that makes me feel that I did the right thing.

    So, what are the alternatives?

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