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Thread: What Is the Future for British Nationalism?

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    Senior Member Carl's Avatar
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    Question What Is the Future for British Nationalism?

    There have been various attempts in the past to establish viable Right- minded (!) Nationalist Parties in Britain in the past decades and beyond - and into the present age. At the moment, the leading party might be considered to be the British National Party , two of whose leaders have just been dramatically acquitted of race hatred charges in Northern England by a local Jury.This Party has made some impact in the Capital ,in the Midlands and in the north of England.

    It is also revelant, I believe , to add to any discussion that there is as well a significant presence by The UK Independence Party - which is primarily against the EU and which has representation in the European Parliament along with others of a similar outlook. UKIP is also pledged to go something effective about Britain's non-European Immigration which most people here feel is seriously out of Government control. Indeed, it seems possible that if voters are not very impressed by the new Conservative leadership - which even some senior Labour people seem to think is rather "over-loving" in some of its policies - that the UKIP could make significant numerical advances at the next general election. If this were the case, the British political establishment could well find the centre ground somewhat undermined.

    How do people on Skadi , far & near , see the future of Britain with respect to such issues --- assuming , of course - (as I must for this thread) , that Britain has a future worth speaking about!

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    Senior Member RedJack's Avatar
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    Re: What is the future for British Nationalism?

    The biggest problem with Britain these days IMO, is that people are either too comfortable to do anything or believe that nothing can be done.
    We need to get out of the EU, close the door on all immigration, deport all the illegals and any who have in any way compromised their newly aquired citizenship, offer assistance to any recent arrivals who wish to go home but can't afford it, dismantle all Race relations commitees and repeal the race relations act. By this point the wogs should have begun to get the message that the free ride is over, they should now be in the mood to accept bribes to leave.
    Don't let Europe Rule Britannia!

    "If we reunited, then we would be an economic and military powerhouse without peer for centuries to come."-Leofric

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    Senior Member Aeric's Avatar
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    Re: What is the future for British Nationalism?

    RedJack's suggested programme makes sense in my eyes. If we wish to be in a position to implement such measures, we have to begin by patiently building the right foundations.

    The battle begins in the hearts and minds of the people. Every day they are subjected to a barrage of multi-culturalistic/anti-white values via the airwaves and the print media. That flow has to be reversed...and we can all play a part. Our words and deeds must reflect our inner convictions - there are days when standing up and saying: "No, this I will not accept" is just as much a victory for our people as any physical act of resistance.

    My online comrades manage a lot of webrings (communities of like-themed sites which share visitor traffic and technical support). Very often, their political beliefs are not relevant at all to their management duties - but when a website for "Jewish Writers" or "Black Poets" applies to join one of their literary listings, it is invariably turned down.

    Of course, this policy often leads to accusations of racism or anti-semitism - yet their response to these charges is elegantly direct. The Ringmaster replies: "We don't accept sites which exclude people on the basis of race or ethnicity...your site is plainly intended for just your own people and is, therefore, racist in nature. We believe that you would be the first in line to complain if we admitted sites that were exclusively for white/aryan writers; why do you think that your particular brand of racism is acceptable?". This kind of thing is just a small step - but it is a start.

    I noticed that somebody, an Englishwoman, recently referred (in this forum) to her country as a "s***hole" - I guess that she was thinking of the state to which our enemies have reduced this once proud nation, yet I honestly believe that it is in our best interests to be positive and to stress our goals with vigour and clarity, rather than go wallowing in the mud of self-pitying rhetoric. To me, Britain is a sacred entity - if anybody suggested that I ever risked my life to defend its 'plutocratic rulers' and not the land (and the people) I love, I would be seriously offended.

    As often happens, the truth in any debate lies between the extremes. Some of us may believe that the Jews have a worldwide conspiracy - I personally think, like Oswiu, that they have managed to sieze power in so many quarters simply by respecting their own interests, siding with their own kind and singing (quite literally) from the same hymnsheet. Jews are our natural enemies and 'in our way', not because they have 'evil blood' but because the very culture which breeds, educates and sustains them is geared towards siezing opportunities, preying upon weaknesses and dominating others.

    Frankly, I would not spare the Jews from deportation. I might leave them until the Blacks and Asians were sorted out - but only as a tactical measure. As Abraham Lincoln said, "One war at a time" is a good rule. It is time that the Chosen People had a taste of their own medicine; let's see how they like being pawns in our game for a change. How much are they willing to pay to be allowed to remain here and hold on to what they have stolen? There would be a certain irony in taxing the Jews in order to finance the removal of the other aliens who have been brought here to serve their purposes. History shows us that Jews are inclined to accept profits and advantages in return for sacrificing both their own allies and (shocking as it may seem) the lower orders of their own kind. I confidently predict that their own mercenary nature will keep them 'on the right side' whilst we deal with the 'dark tide'.

    Achieving real political power in this country will not be easy. The system is hedged against us - rules are changed when we climb over obstacles...to use a sporting anology, the goalposts are constantly being moved. So we must concentrate single-mindedly on our own agenda and do our best to ignore the ploys of the opposition. In that way, we will have the initiative and not be reduced to just responding to their thrusts.

    Oswald Mosley's movement had a deliberate policy of not seeking to tear down the fabric of the nation and rebuild it in a new image. Though that philosophy demonstrates his patriotism, love of established traditions and desire to save the people from unpleasant shocks, it also gives us a good lesson on what happens when a nationalist/right wing party is too unwilling to write its own rules. As I have said elsewhere, we lose when we 'play the game' according to rules that were designed to impede us.

    Carl asked me why I chose to label myself "National Socialist" - though I surely must realise that it is a very emotive title in this country. I use the term in its original sense - a blending of the best elements of Socialism and the love of Nation and Volk. Maybe we need a new title for that mixture - one that the voters won't be scared of...any ideas?

    Aeric

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Re: What is the future for British Nationalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl View Post
    There have been various attempts in the past to establish viable Right- minded (!) Nationalist Parties in Britain in the past decades and beyond - and into the present age. At the moment, the leading party might be considered to be the British National Party , two of whose leaders have just been dramatically acquitted of race hatred charges in Northern England by a local Jury.This Party has made some impact in the Capital ,in the Midlands and in the north of England.
    The BNP have had to seriously modify their policies in recent years; and yet despite being more moderate than ever, they have been involved in two legal trials which were both staged at the same time as similar high-profile trials involving Muslim extremists.

    This cannot have been a coincidence.

    I therefore wonder if we do not see the hand of the state in the BNP's shift in policy [particularly its change in attitude towards the Jewish problem] and these trials themselves.

    It is also revelant, I believe , to add to any discussion that there is as well a significant presence by The UK Independence Party - which is primarily against the EU and which has representation in the European Parliament along with others of a similar outlook. UKIP is also pledged to go something effective about Britain's non-European Immigration which most people here feel is seriously out of Government control.
    I take the UKIP to be anti-Europe and pro-Internationalist free-trade.

    They are not a nationalist party in any way, and they certainly have no position on race.

    If we believe in the concept of a common Germanicism across Nordic countries, for example, then the UKIP are positively damaging to that.

    Indeed, it seems possible that if voters are not very impressed by the new Conservative leadership - which even some senior Labour people seem to think is rather "over-loving" in some of its policies - that the UKIP could make significant numerical advances at the next general election. If this were the case, the British political establishment could well find the centre ground somewhat undermined.
    Let's not forget that the present "over-loving" government has followed George Bush in Iraq etc., and has brought in law after restrictive law to curb freedoms.
    Blair's heir apparent said that the BNP verdict meant that the race laws should be tightened further.
    And having already restricted jury service, no doubt his government would like to abolish it altogether.
    I really believe that the establishment is manipulating the BNP and UKIP in order to try and control the fringes from the centre.
    Therefore any growth in support for the BNP and UKIP would not undermine the centre, but rather strengthen its control through proxy agents.

    So I do not see the "future of British nationalism" in the BNP [if they continue to trim their politcies], nor do I see it in the UKIP [who aren't nationalist].

    It will only come from those who find the BNP & the UKIP too kosher.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Senior Member Carl's Avatar
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    Thanks to all for your postings! As I have suggested to Aeric, it would be good to see a thread where the issues confronting British Nationalism can be debated & (?) clarified. I imagine that themes will arise and positions taken.

    Moody, we know that Mosley had originally Jewish supporters , at the begining , when he first started his party presumably under the influence of Italy. As things progressed and Germany emerged as the more powerful Fascist State, the Jewish issue became more significant in their thinking. Also I imagine (- I wasn't there!), the organized opposition , for obvious reasons , was itself more clearly Jewish. Mosley, after the war, retrod the ground more carefully claiming that he had attacked people for what they did and not for who they were (ie. qua Jews). I am not so sure you would agree with him about that?

    If the BNP have trimmed, it is certainly under pressure from the State in the sense that if they want to be heard at all, they do have to be more publicly acceptable. This shift has occured under Nic Griffin I believe .

    There is an issue of tactics here! Are "we" to be more reasonable in our approaches....or full on extreme - not least on the questions relating to Jews and their being in the world - and as a consequence, not be heard at all? It is a question of effective political tactics v. ideology. I suspect that, in the modern world, you can't have both here . I believe that Agrippa takes the view that if Jews (--who are under pressure in the world anyway from non European sources!) , if Jews are reasonable about the reappearance of Nationalism, then broadly at least, they should not suffer under it. I suspect there is a (major??) division within Skadi about this. At a practical level , the issue could well be the kiss of death!

    I will comment on the other aspects tomorrow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeric View Post
    Achieving real political power in this country will not be easy. The system is hedged against us - rules are changed when we climb over obstacles...to use a sporting anology, the goalposts are constantly being moved. So we must concentrate single-mindedly on our own agenda and do our best to ignore the ploys of the opposition. In that way, we will have the initiative and not be reduced to just responding to their thrusts.

    Oswald Mosley's movement had a deliberate policy of not seeking to tear down the fabric of the nation and rebuild it in a new image. Though that philosophy demonstrates his patriotism, love of established traditions and desire to save the people from unpleasant shocks, it also gives us a good lesson on what happens when a nationalist/right wing party is too unwilling to write its own rules. As I have said elsewhere, we lose when we 'play the game' according to rules that were designed to impede us.
    Aeric
    But Following events is clearly what all politicians tend to do. One has to made a judgement between presenting what might be seen as extreme opinion (policy) and is thereby rejected by any electorate - or being "political" and reasonable in one's message and therefore being heard. This is a judgement call and goes to the heart of the question of Politics; as Powell & others used to say, the business of politics is to the attain power to act. Without that, one is simply engaged in philosophic debate.
    It is not at all an easy task and there are no guarantees whatsoever; one can only act in a way most likely to prove successful. If Mosley before - and now the BNP, have indeed trimmed their policy and programme, that would explain their improved impact. The history is complex and really quite convoluted. The BNP and the NF have existed in various forms for decades; to some extent their memberships have overlapped. At one stage, the NF were also making noticeable local gains (and that's when media & newspapers begin to get alarmed and talk about them -- always a risky undertaking if they are really trying to deny them publicity - as the recent re-trial has just proved). In the past, the gains of the NF were "totally eclipsed" by the appearance of Mrs Thatcher who , in some ways, was publicly thought of as a robust new Patriotic leader - at least a good deal more so that Blair surely! Now, with pundits all around seriously complaining of immigration out of control, the BNP has made significant local gains - in part I believe because of changes in leadership. Anyway, as several people on Skadi have recently commented - for the moment that's all we have.(DO Correct me if I am wrong!!) The underlying principles remain - the form any party takes is necessarily organic over time and inevitably changes with circumstance. If Brown succeeds into bringing in yet new laws, then it will be for the party officials and legal advisors to adjust accordingly - or again risk their freedom. ( It would be very interesting to know more about how this is managed in, say, Germany or Denmark. I certainly have seen various gloomy observations).

    Moody's comments on UKIP are interesting; perhaps they are not Nationalist , merely Patriotic!?, and perhaps that's why they have also made some inroads into the political system - especially by being strongly anti-EU. Interesting it is to compare them with Mosley's old postwar platform of European Political Integration! Mosley was a "nationalist" only in his sense of the term; for him, Europe itself was the new Nation. Elements within the EU , not least in France have possibly been much influenced by this notion -- WE are left wondering if it has any future? I am not aware of any current or active Political movement in Britain along these lines which might be considered nationalist.
    Last edited by Moody; Tuesday, November 14th, 2006 at 04:18 PM. Reason: merged two consecutive posts by same author

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    Re: What is the future for British Nationalism?

    I do not think that the BNP have trimmed their policies to suit the State.

    With regard to Jews, I think that being anti-capitalist and anti-communist is enough.

    I do not see 'the Jews' as being behind globalisation, I just see a few individual Jewish people doing rather well from it, and the rest wandering around, not sure if they should support Israel or not, maybe feeling that they should hedge their bets by supporting multiculturalism and/or trying to fit in.

    I do not have a problem with Zionism, except that Israel does not have a free market, and does not respect the rights of Jewish nationalists.

    For more information on the oppression of Jewish nationalists in Israel go here:

    www.jtf.org

    This is the untold story of Israel, the Jews who are locked up for expressing an opinion. News channels and portals which are forced to broadcast from abroad!

    Israel is not a democracy and it is very hard to set up a company there. There is so much state control.

    Please feel free to flame after the dotted line

    ........................................ ...................

    I left Stormfront after being flamed by American pseudo-Nazis who are pro-capitalist. Does anyone here know why American 'NS' people are so pro-capitalist?


    We should deal with Britain by employing sensible patriotic British gradualism.

    From civic nationalism, like Singapore perhaps, tough penalities, nationalist economy, strict visas, ID cards etc. through to ethno-nationalism.

    I believe that the BNP also needs to simultaneously encourage localism and tap into the anarchic spirit of the UK.

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    Senior Member Aeric's Avatar
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    Re: What is the future for British Nationalism?

    My uncle is a writer and he often speaks to audiences and students about his art. One day he asked me: "Aeric, have you ever made a speech that's gone so badly that you've walked off to the sound of you own footsteps?"...apparently, he'd been speaking to a group of pensioners and decided to start with a joke. Nobody laughed and he was in trouble from that moment onwards...I told him that I'd had many difficult audiences, but I could truthfully say that I did not recall any occasion when I did not win them over and turn their opinions before the conclusion. Very often, attaining this end required a change in strategy, it meant paying attention to the people in front of you and having a response ready for the ones who were looking for the right moment to trip you up.

    Carl's points are very logical and the kind of experiences I mention above tend to attest to the correctness of his opinions. Of course, there are many political questions in which there is a pull, a conflict between head and heart. But Carl's tactical suggestions make practical sense. If we offer the public a full, undiluted taste of our intentions, we may never be in a position to turn them into policies. I would rather be damned as a misleading swine and have the opportunity to administer the right medicine in the long run, than be the loud-mouthed 'extremist' who stands at the back of the crowd heckling ineffectually.

    The Americans have a saying we would do well to remember: Better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission.

    Aeric

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    Senior Member Mazorquero's Avatar
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    Re: What is the future for British Nationalism?

    Ok, Carl, you've convinced me...

    It seems at first I don't fit in this discussion but I just want to tell you how you're being seen in the outside, and perhaps you won't like it:
    While USA is becoming a "dangerous place to live there", England (I say only England because that's what I see mostly) is considered a perfect place to live in, although being as threatened by terrorists as USA. That general opinion is due to the multicultural panoram that we are shown here. I remember that when I was a child, there still was that image of the city gents, and now thinking about London evoques a punk boy coupling with a negro gay while hearing Robbie Williams' new hit. It's an exagerated interpretation of course, but I want you to figure out how that super-liberal image that we get from mass media has settled in people's mind (at least in many of my national fellows). Not even hooligans are mentioned any more, which are thought to be part of the British "folklore". When travell tv shows show you an image of England, they show you crowds of indians, negros, latinos, jews, arabs and asians, and if you're lucky you may see a blond guy who happens to be an American tourist. I'm sorry, but the image of the proud Englishmen ready to die for his/her King/Queen is thing of the past. The same stereothypes are applied to Holland and Scandinavia.
    In the past centuries, England "exported" ideologies, art, culture, industry, and everything had the "English touch" meaning "quality". But now I see you're importing values. For example, I have no idea how does English folk music sound, but I do know how African and Hindu music sound. It's as if the adventurer and colonizer spirit is lost, or well hidden. Fortunately, I rediscovered England thanks to Skadi and wonderful people like the ones who have been writing in this thread. Hope you don't mind, Carl for what I'm going to say: Carl sended me a PM inviting me to participate in this thread, and I felt honoured. However, at first I responded that it might be innapropiate to post here because I have little knowledge about the issue discussed. Nevertheless, I read the whole thread and decided to tell you that the problem you are facing is not only yours, but is spreading... and awfully fast.
    About the BNP, I must say that I didn't know not even that it existed. But I think that if they are showing a liberalized behavior, must be a defensive tactic against being banned, I don't think they would change so abruptly their ideology.
    Thanks for letting me speak.

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    Re: What is the future for British Nationalism?

    Yeah we are dealing with a spreading problem.

    The problem is global. Whereas before Britain was able to use its overseas defence forces (under the control of the foreign office) to back up our world dominance of the service industries and play that off against the French, we are loosing the game.

    I would be happy for Britain to retain all of her interests abroad, maybe even start co-operating with France on strategic matters, just as long as our domestic policies could be changed and improved!

    Sadly, I think that it may take the loss of our pseudo-empire before there is the impetus to improve our domestic policies. I hope not though.

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    Senior Member Carl's Avatar
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    Re: What is the future for British Nationalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mazorquero View Post
    About the BNP, I must say that I didn't know not even that it existed. But I think that if they are showing a liberalized behavior, must be a defensive tactic against being banned, I don't think they would change so abruptly their ideology.
    Thanks for letting me speak.
    What can I say? Mazorquero, you are more than welcome! I think your observations are spot on - I have seen it now for decades & am frankly ashamed in a way of what England in particular has become ( since it just isn't right!). All within decades this horrendous transformation of the land has occurred. I live in the south; I know of south London - and many parts are now little more than Jungles. I repeat what I recall - Mosley saying that we will end up like America ( in regard to mass immigration of Black people). If anything, its worse -we also have a million or so active Muslims, build mosques where they can, making the land even more alien unto itself. And the Home Secretary (Interior Minister) speaking today of countless thousands already here who are sympathetic ( if that isn't an understatement) to the terrorist factions which are currently organizing c 30 active terror cells, plotting to bomb us with anything they can get heir hands on ! This isn't "racist phantasy" - it's current sub-crisis state of alert!! I guess it is London that is the primary centre for attack - with the security services stretched beyond their capacity to deal with an increasingly impossible situation.We can only await on evidents and see what happens! Anytime maybe!

    One would think in this situation that "something would be done"! Dangerous elements could certainly be firmly identified and removed. Only last night the TV gave details of active agitation networks at work " not so far distant!" Why is it allowed - why haven't the democratic guardians acted? They have the power , they have the cause ; why don't they act? Could it be that they don't want to concede arguments to "extremists" and "odious elements" in society? I can't read their thinking; I suspect they are in chaos, looking at the ministry in charge of immigration. Yesterday it was reported that one fairly senior and suspect Muslim is actually employed in the very department currently dealing with immigration appeals. Sounds to me like a house divided against itself!

    Redjack! I know you breathe fire over Europe! but I was reading info from a guy in Switzerland who was telling me about the successes of the Danish FolksParty in curbing certain excesses; they must be getting somewhere because the liberal Swedes are furious. So much so that the Danes were forced to observed that when S Sweden ignites in race riots, the Danes may have to react by closing their nice new bridge!

    We need to know about what is going on in adjacent countries.We need that input. To what extent we are integrated with any responses is another matter - one for the future. We shouldn't be shutting such doors. But Others - for certain! And woe shall betide us if we don't!

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