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Thread: The Problem with Subracial Types

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    The Problem with Subracial Types

    I think the subracial classification used at sites like Nordish.net are based on outdated science. And are not useful. Too often I've seen classification like Subnordic, Anglo-Saxon, etc. based on nothing but subjective opinion. What about their genetic contribution?

    I think most the people from Western Europe are descendants of Cro Magnon people. That would include Western Mediterraneans, Atlanto-Meds, Paleo and North Atlantids, Alpines, Falish, Brunn, Borreby. They are just variants of Cro Magnon. They are not necessarily mixtures with non Cro Magnon people.

    Pontid, East Baltic, Irano-Afghan and Nordic may have their origin in Central Asia. These may also be variants of some Central Asian UP base type.
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    Re: The Problem with Subracial Types

    Quote Originally Posted by tinman View Post
    I think the subracial classification used at sites like Nordish.net are based on outdated science. And are not useful. Too often I've seen classification like Subnordic, Anglo-Saxon, etc. based on nothing but subjective opinion. What about their genetic contribution?

    I think most the people from Western Europe are descendants of Cro Magnon people. That would include Western Mediterraneans, Atlanto-Meds, Paleo and North Atlantids, Alpines, Falish, Brunn, Borreby. They are just variants of Cro Magnon. They are not necessarily mixtures with non Cro Magnon people.

    Pontid, East Baltic, Irano-Afghan and Nordic may have their origin in Central Asia. These may also be variants of some Central Asian UP base type.
    I live in the Iberian Peninsula and I assure to you that they are mixtures.

    "95%" of the population of the Iberian Peninsula have ascending Nordids, Cro-Magnids or Dinarids but in a high percentage mixed with Iberids(100% non-european)

    I have traveled to central Europe and north-est Europe and I assure to you that the Alpinids, east-Baltids etc... is mixtures with Mongoloids.

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    Re: The Problem with Subracial Types

    Quote Originally Posted by Nseag View Post
    I live in the Iberian Peninsula and I assure to you that they are mixtures.

    "95%" of the population of the Iberian Peninsula have ascending Nordids, Cro-Magnids or Dinarids but in a high percentage mixed with Iberids(100% non-european)

    I have traveled to central Europe and north-est Europe and I assure to you that the Alpinids, east-Baltids etc... is mixtures with Mongoloids.
    Whatever, I notice you classify EVERYONE as Brunn, even me and he was the only one out of about 25 classifiers to classify me as partly brunn. He classified me as nordid+brunn+iberid. Then I asked him to explain why he classified me as those things, and could not give me an answer, hmm. Which shows how much truth he holds into his so-called classifications. How can an Iberid be 100% noneuropean, troll? Iberian peninsula is in europe, and iberid is a mediterranian type. I see he claims to be keltic-nordid, but yet noone has seen a picture of him. I guarantee that if we were to see a real picture of him, we would see subracial traits of "noneuropean" in his standards.

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    Re: The Problem with Subracial Types

    Quote Originally Posted by Nseag View Post
    I assure to you that the Alpinids ... is mixtures with Mongoloids.
    Is this because of this suspicious hypothesis you find mongoloid in 95% of europe people?

    How could you seriously explain a significant presence of Mongoloid blood in Western Europe?

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    Re: The Problem with Subracial Types

    Quote Originally Posted by Nseag View Post
    I live in the Iberian Peninsula and I assure to you that they are mixtures.

    "95%" of the population of the Iberian Peninsula have ascending Nordids, Cro-Magnids or Dinarids but in a high percentage mixed with Iberids(100% non-european)

    I have traveled to central Europe and north-est Europe and I assure to you that the Alpinids, east-Baltids etc... is mixtures with Mongoloids.

    There is no genetic evidence of this. What are you basing this on? Your own subjective opinion?
    .

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    AW: The Problem with Subracial Types

    Everything depends on what you think a racial type should be. Finally they are evolutionary tendencies, specialisations, adaptation, inherited feature combinations being unique for the respective type etc.

    Compare:
    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=43330

    Applied to a Swiss sample:
    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=65091
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    Re: AW: The Problem with Subracial Types

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa View Post
    Everything depends on what you think a racial type should be. Finally they are evolutionary tendencies, specialisations, adaptation, inherited feature combinations being unique for the respective type etc.

    Compare:
    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=43330

    Applied to a Swiss sample:
    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=65091

    Epigenetics can explain variances. But does that really mean that they are different. They may look different but genetically they could be twins. There's a good example in the Nov 2006 issue of Discover magazine. Pictures of twins but raised in very different environments. The neglected one is shorter but looks more Nordic. The other which grew up in a nurturing environment is taller but looks more Alpinid.
    .

    IHR Revisionist Conference, April 24, 2004, internet broadcast:

    http://www.internationalrevisionistconference.c om/

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    AW: Re: AW: The Problem with Subracial Types

    Quote Originally Posted by tinman View Post
    Epigenetics can explain variances. But does that really mean that they are different. They may look different but genetically they could be twins.
    Thats like an argument for a Bushman and Mongol being closely related - probably by just counting genetic frequencies alone without looking at their phenotypical relevance closer than to the neighboring tribal group. Oh well, that doesnt matter for racial specialisation because for that its crucial that if you put a Mongol in the heat and the Bushman in the cold, you get results of significance and thats what racial specialisation is about, different evolutionary tendencies and adaptations.

    They dont "just look different", but represent different specialisations. Of course inside of the Europid spectrum differences are not always that huge and between some of them they are closer or bigger, it depends, but still the different directions samples of such racial types are going is clear and if breeding relatively "pure typological" lines of those back, one would get strains which fit better or worse in a respective environment and would be collectively and by measurable (not just physical) traits being closer to certain ancestral population than to others and again: Thats what it all is primarily about, not counting genes without even knowing their function...thats nice for certain population studies and ancestral trees, but its mostly without any significance for racial specialisation.

    Just imagine an ice bear having 70 percent brown bear genes but all ice bear traits - well, what would he be? He still has the typical specialisation of the ice bear species and would survive like the other members of the group, whereas a brown bear, even if having 70 percent ice bear genes if lacking the crucial traits and adaptations, would have a much harder time...

    There's a good example in the Nov 2006 issue of Discover magazine. Pictures of twins but raised in very different environments. The neglected one is shorter but looks more Nordic. The other which grew up in a nurturing environment is taller but looks more Alpinid.
    Well, so what? Race is about inherited feature combinations and they both were mixed too obviously, otherwise they wouldnt differ as much. We could argue about whether genes or environment determined the height of those too and we could as well say both if assuming that the one with an overall more Alpinid appearance inherited the Nordid height and vice versa...how can we know before not knowing all genes being responsible for height?
    And I never denied the importance of environmental factors, just read the thread about the Little Ice Age. But I might remind you on the difference between modification and selection. The former can be easily reverted in just a 1-3 generations, the latter only via mutations, mixtures or selection.
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    You sound like an old man who has invested too much in an old way of thinking and isn't about to give it up.

    BTW, there is no pure phenotypes.

    Here is the photo from Discover magazine. These are twins. Genetically identical. Yet no one here would say their phenotype is the same. The one on the left grew up in a neglected environment. The one on the right grew up in a nurturing environment.

    So, what I'm saying is that Western Europeans, for the most part, are all descended from the Cro Magnon people. That variations (ie supposed subtypes) is a result of epigenetics and not mixing with non-Cro Magnon people.

    Phenotype with regards to subtypes is bunk.
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    Last edited by Oswiu; Friday, November 3rd, 2006 at 03:46 AM.
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    http://www.internationalrevisionistconference.c om/

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    AW: Re: The Problem with Subracial Types

    Quote Originally Posted by tinman View Post
    You sound like an old man who has invested too much in an old way of thinking and isn't about to give it up.

    BTW, there is no pure phenotypes.
    Sure there are pure phenotypes, there are just no pure subracial genotypes - you just confused things.

    Quote Originally Posted by tinman View Post
    Here is the photo from Discover magazine. These are twins. Genetically identical. Yet no one here would say their phenotype is the same. The one on the left grew up in a neglected environment. The one on the right grew up in a nurturing environment.
    I saw more extreme examples of that pattern. Interestingly both are not that infantile by body proportions and have the same head shape for the most part, facial features being absolutely the same. One is just taller and fatter, thats it, nothing new if considering the effects of nutrition.

    So, what I'm saying is that Western Europeans, for the most part, are all descended from the Cro Magnon people.
    Depends on what you mean with Cro Magnon people, care to enlighten us with your definition?

    That variations (ie supposed subtypes) is a result of epigenetics and not mixing with non-Cro Magnon people.
    Its mostly the result of adaptation, specialisation indeed, something I pointed out various times. I also spoke about the fact that Aurignacoid and Cromagnoid phenotypes entered Europe latest 30.000 years ago and that its unlikely to find any population which is genetically pure just one or the other. Crucial is which traits being favoured by selection in which region and why - and what was the result of this specialisation!

    Phenotype with regards to subtypes is bunk.
    What? You sound like not even knowing what phenotype means...
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