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Thread: Post Examples of Living, Predominantly Dinarid Individuals

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    Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: Post examples of pred. Dinarid living individuals

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa View Post
    I think that in a way (typical-classic) Dinarids and Alpinids are the result of a certain source group and mixture, population which split into two extreme, opposite adaptations which main common adaptive characteristics are in the phenotype pigmentation and brachycephaly. With a low-hormonal and infantile-reduced extreme for the isolated peasant and a high-hormonal and mature-akromegaloid extreme for the herders and rulers of the mountains. Obviously everything in between is thinkable in such a spectrum too and one can exist without the other in certain regions too, but in a way they are a completion of each other in rather harsh, isolated, higher and more mountainous areas with iodine and vitamin deficiencies etc.

    The higher performing, more warlike and dominant rulers and herders of the mountains and high valleys, peasantry in the lower valleys and forests...
    Its thinkable that one can revert the respective tendency which would result in Alpinisation of Dinarids or vice versa, since the difference seems to me to be partly mainly one of growth pattern, maturation and hormonal status, especially in certain Alpine, mountainous areas of Central and South Eastern Europe with Alpinids being ontogenetically retarded, stopping on a more child like status. This is combined with certain morphological peculiarities though, but with an overlap in those areas.
    Farming would be an extraordinary lifestyle for an average alpin. Even untill the end of 19th centuy the main economic acitivity on the alps were herdsmanship.
    The richness of italian alpins is a rather late occurrrence after the industrial revolution (mediterranean was no more an opportunity for trade as the main trade was transatlantic and if from africa beyond the hercules' coloumns) to support the industry in Italy the custom taxes were elevated. In order to decrease the transportation burden industry was supported in the north, only after the industrial income waterways were built in the north for farming. The response to the conservativism of industry ws the elevted taxes towards the agricultural products in the fertile southern italy.
    http://www.virtualmontana.org/virtua...geog/intro.htm
    The traditional economy of the Alps is based upon rearing cattle by the seasonal migration between the valley and the high pastures. This is known as transhumance. It is gradually being replaced by a system of keeping cattle in stalls. In the drier areas, the slopes tend to be bare and rocky. There are also forests of pine and larch and pastures with sheep.

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    AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: Post examples of pred. Dinarid living individuals

    Quote Originally Posted by hedon View Post
    Farming would be an extraordinary lifestyle for an average alpin. Even untill the end of 19th centuy the main economic acitivity on the alps were herdsmanship.
    ...
    The traditional economy of the Alps is based upon rearing cattle by the seasonal migration between the valley and the high pastures. This is known as transhumance. It is gradually being replaced by a system of keeping cattle in stalls. In the drier areas, the slopes tend to be bare and rocky. There are also forests of pine and larch and pastures with sheep.
    Right. Thats why the real "mountain race" is the Dinarid, an independent herder and warrior of the mountains, and not the Alpinid type. As I said, the higher regions, mountains and high valleys, being primarily the territory of herders and Dinarids. There was peasantry with bad nutrition, a low importance of animal husbandry and under the control of those which came from the mountains or migrated through the Alps and those were the classic Alpinids more often.

    You might compare with this too:
    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=42966

    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=42374
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    Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: Post examples of pred. Dinarid living individuals

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa View Post
    Right. Thats why the real "mountain race" is the Dinarid, an independent herder and warrior of the mountains, and not the Alpinid type. As I said, the higher regions, mountains and high valleys, being primarily the territory of herders and Dinarids. There was peasantry with bad nutrition, a low importance of animal husbandry and under the control of those which came from the mountains or migrated through the Alps and those were the classic Alpinids more often.

    You might compare with this too:
    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=42966

    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=42374
    hi agrippa,
    thanks fo your kind thanks,
    i would like to add that alpines are a good example of the adaptation capacity of the wonderfull creatures called the mankind.
    alpine adaptation is not only mentally but also physically to the environment. alpinization is specialization which means progression to another state from where we are. short and strong legs of alpines are better for walking in the snow, you fall fast when you are tall. alpine body is more balanced. despite their bony structure their brachycephaly supplies enough space for their mind.

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    AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: Post examples of pred. Dinarid living individuals

    Quote Originally Posted by hedon View Post
    i would like to add that alpines are a good example of the adaptation capacity of the wonderfull creatures called the mankind.
    Thats true, because without that adaptation the population density and survival rate of certain populations in unfavourable environments would have been lower.

    alpine adaptation is not only mentally but also physically to the environment. alpinization is specialization which means progression to another state from where we are.
    If its really a progress is another matter though, since niche adaptations can be very one sided and reduce the general potential like its usually always the case with reduction and infantilisation.

    short and strong legs of alpines are better for walking in the snow, you fall fast when you are tall.
    Its advantageous for the cold, but mainly because of saving. Alpinids were no mobile nor adventuresome people, but sedentary peasants with a minimum of available ressource, energy, malnutrition and deficits on vitamins and mineral nutrients (compare with iodine in particular!). With shorter legs they grow faster, need less bones and muscles, can store the superfluous energy in fat immediately, even from early age on (whereas other variants grow fat - if at all - later in life usually).
    Everything what was not cost efficient in this situation of deficiency, hunger, social dependence and suppression, diseases and plagues, was "saved", cut down.

    If they would have been just a strong adaptation to the cold, like some Alpinoid variants even are (!), but Alpinisation throughout Europe is not, they would have become larger, bigger, stronger bones and muscles, not reduced and often even infantile pyknomorphs with weaker bones (!).

    alpine body is more balanced. despite their bony structure their brachycephaly supplies enough space for their mind.
    Their headshape was again mainly the result of saving - saving of bony material and their brainsize is not particularly large for Europid standards.

    Earlier maturation, higher fertility rates, lower energy, vitamin, minteral nutrients needs, more "storage", more efficient saving of energy and heat, less risk taking etc.

    Just think of a car which has to be: As cheap as possible both in:
    Production and maintenance.

    You try to save: Material to build the car. So it has to be small, no special design, probably just trying to make it look "more cure and harmless" with whats available. It has to be build up easy and fast, so less complication during production and its faster ready for being trade.
    The consumption should be low too, saving high. It shouldnt need too much space and being able to adapt itself easily.

    Its clear that such a car is best for an urban environment in which there is a good infrastructure, well developed and maintained streets. Same is true for Alpinids. In a stable civilisation or isolation their saving strategy can work, if there is a real need for competing with performance, they can't on their own, only, if, as a completion of more powerful variants.

    The psychic and the physical adaptation are opportunistic in a biological sense. They dont form an environment or dominate it, they adapt to it in a passive way if speaking about the typical-extreme variants.
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    Re: Post examples of pred. Dinarid living individuals

    Came across this the other day

    Dinaricized Asian:

    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: Post examples of pred. Dinarid living individuals

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa View Post
    Thats true, because without that adaptation the population density and survival rate of certain populations in unfavourable environments would have been lower.



    If its really a progress is another matter though, since niche adaptations can be very one sided and reduce the general potential like its usually always the case with reduction and infantilisation.



    Its advantageous for the cold, but mainly because of saving. Alpinids were no mobile nor adventuresome people, but sedentary peasants with a minimum of available ressource, energy, malnutrition and deficits on vitamins and mineral nutrients (compare with iodine in particular!). With shorter legs they grow faster, need less bones and muscles, can store the superfluous energy in fat immediately, even from early age on (whereas other variants grow fat - if at all - later in life usually).
    Everything what was not cost efficient in this situation of deficiency, hunger, social dependence and suppression, diseases and plagues, was "saved", cut down.

    If they would have been just a strong adaptation to the cold, like some Alpinoid variants even are (!), but Alpinisation throughout Europe is not, they would have become larger, bigger, stronger bones and muscles, not reduced and often even infantile pyknomorphs with weaker bones (!).



    Their headshape was again mainly the result of saving - saving of bony material and their brainsize is not particularly large for Europid standards.

    Earlier maturation, higher fertility rates, lower energy, vitamin, minteral nutrients needs, more "storage", more efficient saving of energy and heat, less risk taking etc.

    Just think of a car which has to be: As cheap as possible both in:
    Production and maintenance.

    You try to save: Material to build the car. So it has to be small, no special design, probably just trying to make it look "more cure and harmless" with whats available. It has to be build up easy and fast, so less complication during production and its faster ready for being trade.
    The consumption should be low too, saving high. It shouldnt need too much space and being able to adapt itself easily.

    Its clear that such a car is best for an urban environment in which there is a good infrastructure, well developed and maintained streets. Same is true for Alpinids. In a stable civilisation or isolation their saving strategy can work, if there is a real need for competing with performance, they can't on their own, only, if, as a completion of more powerful variants.

    The psychic and the physical adaptation are opportunistic in a biological sense. They dont form an environment or dominate it, they adapt to it in a passive way if speaking about the typical-extreme variants.
    hi,
    Human is small, therefore small is beautifull.
    It seems that alpines are rather cost-effective machines. They are doing fairly good after the industrial revolution, so it seems they are quick to adaptate themselves to a new environment.
    would you mind if i condense the thread a bit?
    The brachycephal sarmatian type does not exist.
    Northpontic type is average eastern mediterranean as even in the khazar burials a small, delicate, 160 cm, longheaded type is common.
    The pathans would be related with gothic (if they are originally indoeuropean)
    and this split would have taken place before the divison of centum/satem.
    Sarmatians are celtic nordics who are low vaulted and have UP characteristics which means that they are originally from continental europe.
    What obscures oslonor is the biggest pathan tribe (i dont remember the exact name at the moment) is either khallach in origin or mixed.
    best wishes

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    AW: Post examples of living, predominantly Dinarid individuals

    Dinarid or dinaricized mediteranean or alpinid?


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    AW: Post examples of living, predominantly Dinarid individuals


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    Re: Post examples of living, predominantly Dinarid individuals





    A sinister looking Hollywood-Dinarid.
    Peter Stormare - Swedish Prison Break actor. There are Dinarids in Northern Europe as well. I even know 100% Finnish individuals who have typical Dinarid traits like a flattened occiput, "tower head", convex nose and tallness. Unfortunately I don't have pictures of them.

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    AW: Post examples of living, predominantly Dinarid individuals

    Peter Stormare is in my opinion not that Dinarid at all, even though having such influences most likely.

    However, concerning what you said about Finns, well, in the Baltic countries lives a Dinarid minority, I'd say that Dinarid strains might have migrated upwards from there. Furthermore there is the possibility of rather unusual mixtures or individuals coming up with a similar combination of traits. But most will be (Indo- ?) European descendents which migrated Northwards together with the Nordoid-Cromagnoid groups or descendents of more recent immigrants.
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