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Thread: When Did the Idea of Western Civilization Start?

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    Question When Did the Idea of Western Civilization Start?

    I am in a class on the modern middle east and my professor seems to be sympathetic towards Islamic societies and has claimed that Western Civilization is an artificial construct developed by a Frenchman in the 19th century. My question is.. Where do you state was the beginning of the idea of "Western Civilization" ? Could it be traced back to the war between the Greeks and the Persians? and if so, is Persia really the East?
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    Re: About Western Civilization

    I believe Spengler dated the beginnings of Western Civilization to the early Medieval period. He also stressed the difference between Classical and "Faustian" culture.

    But thats his opinion.

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    Re: About Western Civilization

    I'd say the Great Schism of 1054 is more important, from a western European perspective.

    I hope the Catholico-Protestant [or RomanoGermanic] and Orthodox [GrecoSlavonic] worlds can get over this old rift in our new time, when I hope the wider and more biological notion of 'Europe' will be of more import, but when talking of 'Western Civilisation' we are not usually considering the Grand Duchy of Mosow or the Empire of Trebizond.

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    Sv: Re: About Western Civilization

    I hope the Catholico-Protestant [or RomanoGermanic] and Orthodox [GrecoSlavonic] worlds can get over this old rift in our new time, when I hope the wider and more biological notion of 'Europe' will be of more import, but when talking of 'Western Civilisation' we are not usually considering the Grand Duchy of Mosow or the Empire of Trebizond.
    - It's not difficult to agree on your historical analysis, but I don't quite understand how it can be possible to "get over the old rift" and at the same time hope for a "more biological notion of Europe". Isn't the East-West rift also a biological rift?

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    Re: Sv: Re: About Western Civilization

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperboreus View Post
    Isn't the East-West rift also a biological rift?
    Not really - I'm from the Far West of Europe, and have been to the Far East, and not felt foreign there. There are cromagnids at both ends of the continent - Coon himself remarked on the striking similarities between some individual Finns and Irishmen, and in Russia I often see amazing lookalikes of people I've known in Britain. We have our Atlantids, they their Pontids, and many examples in the anthropological taxonomy section prove the difficulties of telling them apart. Across a continent, there are naturally great variations, but I feel very little alien in the faces I see over by the Urals.

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    Re: About Western Civilization

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator X View Post
    I am in a class on the modern middle east and my professor seems to be sympathetic towards Islamic societies and has claimed that Western Civilization is an artificial construct developed by a Frenchman in the 19th century. My question is.. Where do you state was the beginning of the idea of "Western Civilization" ? Could it be traced back to the war between the Greeks and the Persians? and if so, is Persia really the East?
    those ridicules islamophiles seem to forget history when they please so, most knowledge was most often of hellenistic origin - thus european - not arab.., or was persian which they 'stole' after they invaded the region. like mynydd once said, the start of the islamicisation in spain took place in 711 AD, and mohammed's egira in 622 AD. mecca was only surrender to islam in 630 AD. what knowledge could have developed a nomadic tribe of goat herders from the arabian peninsula in such small period of time? right after taking over arabia they started expanding through modern iran and iraq through the east, and egypt and lybia through the west

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    East and West

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu View Post
    Not really - I'm from the Far West of Europe, and have been to the Far East, and not felt foreign there. There are cromagnids at both ends of the continent - Coon himself remarked on the striking similarities between some individual Finns and Irishmen, and in Russia I often see amazing lookalikes of people I've known in Britain. We have our Atlantids, they their Pontids, and many examples in the anthropological taxonomy section prove the difficulties of telling them apart. Across a continent, there are naturally great variations, but I feel very little alien in the faces I see over by the Urals.
    - It's difficult to discuss "feelings". I personally have the opposite experience, a feeling of cultural and racial estrangement in Eastern, predominantly "Slavonic" Europe. As far as I know, pre-WW2 anthropological research clearly indicated significant racial differences between Eastern and North-Western Europe.

    Anyway, I assume that nobody here denies the fact that there are very significant cultural differences between Eastern, "Slavonic" Europe, and North-Western, predominantly Germanic, Europe. So, if we assume that race is of any, great importance for cultural development, and if we assume that there are no significant racial differences between East and West in Europe, how could we end up with such different cultures?

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