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Thread: The Bayeux Tapestry

  1. #11
    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: The Bayeux Tapestry

    Quote Originally Posted by AWAR
    They did enough harm by unleashing unto the world the hideous name 'Norman'!

    Especially hideous as the name of the director of clssic romantic comedies
    mr. Norman Jewison
    Yes, Jews are very fond of the name Norman [and Norma].
    Is this because the Normans brought the Jews to England [fact]?

    And wasn't the 12th century 'English' conquest of Ireland really a Norman conquest of Ireland [and aided - invited even, see the story of Strongbow - by squabbling Irish chieftains]?

    Moral; don't blame the English - blame Norman and Norma!
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

  2. #12
    Member Awar's Avatar
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    Post Re: The Bayeux Tapestry

    Dr.Frankenstein- "Bring me the brain of Abe Norman!"
    Igor the servant *brings back the a jar with a brain, with the label: Abnormal"
    ( that's a little Jewish humour, by Mel Brooks )

  3. #13
    Sideways to the Sun
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    Post Re: The Bayeux Tapestry

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    Yes, Jews are very fond of the name Norman [and Norma].
    Is this because the Normans brought the Jews to England [fact]?

    And wasn't the 12th century 'English' conquest of Ireland really a Norman conquest of Ireland [and aided - invited even, see the story of Strongbow - by squabbling Irish chieftains]?

    Moral; don't blame the English - blame Norman and Norma!
    I was going to but your previous post suggested that the Normans didn't conquer the Anglo-Saxons after all

    I wouldn't put much too much significance on the name anyway. The Celts have always called the country "Saxon-Land" in their languages, while the English themselves obviously identified themselves more as Angles (Angle-land)
    The Normans already ruled Normandy, perhaps they decided just to leave England named as it was

    I think the Norman victory at the Battle of Hastings may have just brought over a ruling aristocracy (along with a large influence on the language), rather than replaced the population to any major degree.

    And yes, you are correct, it was originally Normans who came to Ireland.
    But you'll have some explaining to do to convince me they were responsible for the proceeding 8 centuries, unless you are Norman after all

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    Post Re: The Bayeux Tapestry

    Quote Originally Posted by Milesian
    I think the Norman victory at the Battle of Hastings may have just brought over a ruling aristocracy (along with a large influence on the language), rather than replaced the population to any major degree.

    And yes, you are correct, it was originally Normans who came to Ireland.
    But you'll have some explaining to do to convince me they were responsible for the proceeding 8 centuries, unless you are Norman after all

    Sure--I certainly agree that that Norman invasion of England is a classic example of "elite dominance" of a small group over am already grounded population....regardless of whether or not the majority of this grounded population were actual Angles & Saxons or Keltic descendants (or of course a blend ot the two).

    My beef with the Normans is not their numbers but more their governing ways. I can't claim to be an expert of the subject but I have done a little reading. The Normans appear to have been quite a bit more 'imperialistic' than the A-S kingdoms were with regard to Ireland and the continent (obvious French ties). Also, it's pretty well known and accepted (I believe) that the Normans brought in the feudal system and basically lorded over, taxed the hell out of and marginalized the English. The Doomesday book shows this well with only a handful of English left as landowners.

    I suppose though, that it is easy for me to wax romanitc and sentimental about the Anglo-Saxons, growing up in the 'old' New England culture as I did which traces many of it's systems of self-determining and independent freemen/yeomen, land owning farmers directly to Anglo-Saxon England... The notion of becoming free of the "Norman yoke" was alive during the American Revolution and echos of it (though not specifically related to the Normans anymore) remain to this day in the hills and hollows of rural America.

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    Post Re: The Bayeux Tapestry

    the Danes were surely more dominating in England than the Normans in the Danelaw years

    "E tutti si scandalizzano quando sentono dire: quel tale tipo di mammifero o di uccello ormai è sparito dalla faccia della terra, non lo vedremo più; è una grave perdita. Certo, si tratta di gravissime perdite.
    Ma non sarebbe forse più grave se sparisse una comunità umana?? --Bruno Salvadori

    Seven pictures of northern European males and seven pictures of northern African males were presented randomly via a computer screen to 82 Italian female undergraduates of the University of Padua, Italy.
    Each picture depicted a full frontal face with a neutral facial expression. Participants were asked to classify each picture as either northern Italian or southern Italian.
    On average, the seven pictures depicting northern Europeans were classified as northern Italians 81% of the time. The seven pictures depicting northern Africans were classified as southern Italians 83%
    of the time.



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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: The Bayeux Tapestry

    Quote Originally Posted by Gesta Bellica
    the Danes were surely more dominating in England than the Normans in the Danelaw years
    Well, they were not as ORGANISED as the Normans - few were!
    The Normans replaced the whole land-owning English ruling class, from royalty, to religious, to legal.
    Although there had been some connections between the Anglo-Saxons and the Norman elites prior to the invasion, of course.

    I think though, that for at least three centuries after the invasion of 1066, when only Norman-French was spoken in the royal and legal courts, we should really speak of Norman-England [i.e., Anglo-Normans].

    As to the name 'England', with 'Eng-' derived from 'Angles'; I take the latter as an abbreviation of 'Anglo-Saxon', meaning 'English Saxons' [as opposed to 'German Saxons'].
    In other words, Anglo-Saxon was a name that made a geographical distinction between two related Saxon groups; one in the British Isles, the other on the continent.
    While I know that the Angles, Saxons and Jutes are always mentioned as the main invading 'tribes' of post-Roman Britain [solely on the authority of Bede, I think], I believe that the Saxons were not a tribe as such, but rather a large tribal confederation.

    This makes sense of the usual term used for the period I referred to above - 'Anglo-Normans', meaning the Normans of England, rather the Normans of Normandy.

    With the loss of French possessions, the Anglo-Normans then dropped the 'Norman' bit and became Angles - but they really are a distinct lot from the Anglo-Saxons of old, many of whom fled to Scandinavia after the conquest [some joining the Varangian Guard in Byzantium].
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

  7. #17
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    The Bayeux Tapestry is incredible, even though it isn't a tapestry (it's embroidered linen). I'm very puzzled by the figure of Ælfgyva, though. Was she William the Conqueror's great aunt or Edmund Ironside's mother, Ælfgyva of York?

    It was sickening that French revolutionaries nearly destroyed this iconic object!
    “She could never be a saint, but she thought she could be a martyr if they killed her quick.”
    ― Flannery O'Connor

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    a.k.a. Godwinson
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    My wife has been to see the Bayeux Tapestry so many times that the tourists now think she's the official guide

    I managed to negotiate a deal with some bloke in Normandy who brought us a couple of panels over to display in our living room ...



    (..not the real thing, obviously but still a fine piece of work!)

    These panels represent William & Harold together on their campaign against Duke Conan of Brittany (1064/65). They show the Mont St. Michel in the background on the left of the first one and on the right of that same one you can see Harold heroically rescuing two Norman soldiers from the quicksand which surrounds the Mont St. Michel.

    The second panel depicts Duke Conan fleeing from his castle towards the end as the Norman knights attack.

    Here is a link that translates the Latin text of the Tapestry. The scenes above are numbers 17 & 18.

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  11. #19
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    What I want to know is whether Harold died from an arrow shot through the eye or being hacked to pieces!

    “She could never be a saint, but she thought she could be a martyr if they killed her quick.”
    ― Flannery O'Connor

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    a.k.a. Godwinson
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    It's one of history’s enduring mysteries and unlikely ever to be solved.

    Nobody can say, based on the scene above, what exactly happened to Harold. We don’t even know which of the soldiers under the heading “Harold Rex Interfectus Est” is supposed to be him. He could be the first one, the second one, both or neither (although this is highly improbable). One of the most obvious objections to Harold being depicted twice is that the two figures shown have legs of different colours.

    The Tapestry has also undergone restoration and it's doubtful that the current version is an exact copy of the original.


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