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Thread: My personal opinion about intolerance

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    My personal opinion about intolerance

    Subjects like discrimination are discussed every day, specially the ones concerning race and homosexuality. The "discussion" is not in fact what it really means, because you always hear the same phrases: "It's bad, it's a taboo, the one who discriminates is a fascist" and so on. But in very few occasions is heard a deep study of the causes, neither biologically, psychologically nor sociologically. Fortunately, it's not the case of Skadi.
    I personally think it has to do with a sense of preservation of the community. That is, in the beginning races were separated geographically and genetically between them, and that occurred all along prehistoric times, so it's highly probable that we are genetically custom to live and thus prefer people who shares our race, and when an alien component is introduced in that community (a foreigner with different culture/race) a biological mechanism alerts you that your idiosyncrasy is in peril. Besides, in prehistoric and early historic times each encounter between two races meant war, because one usually wanted the territory occupied by the other, so we can have also genetic algorithms like "different race coming=invasion", we can find examples even today. You may mention examples of coexistence and mixing between two races, like celtics and iberians, but they share a common past, both come from indo-europeans, so it's not a fatal encounter. Imagine a "normal" white european person according to old standards, that has no kind of prejudice or doesn't sustain hates towards no race or particular people. Unconsciously, he/her will form stronger emotional links with people of his own race and culture, it's quite uncommon that a white person has more than one or two negro (or any other different race) friends, and they rarely are his/her best friends (remember we are talking about a "normal" person).
    About homosexuality, the mechanism would be similar. Homosexuals don't help to the reproduction and thus a society with a high percentage of homosexuals won't grow very much. Reproduction is a natural obligation and all living beings pursue it, because the persistence of the species is achieved by that way, it's another unconscious process. But homosexuals don't fit in this plan, they are abnormal in that sense. Ancient greeks had a high proportion of homosexuals in their population, but they were "culturally allowed", and the most of them were bisexuals, many men were married, had family and sometimes had homosexual relations, and was no rare behavior.
    As a proof that all the explained above has a biological mechanism, watch animals (we are animals also, after all): tigers and lions can mix between them, and they don't do it (until some centuries ago they shared the same territory, so they had the possibility, even today in Gihr in India there are lions and tigers coexisting); there are more than one races of zebras, living in the same places, and they don't mix; something similar occurs among antelopes. A more common example, you take a donkey and horse and you obtain a mule, but it doesn't happen naturally, you must literally force them to do it. Homosexuals animals are generally killed by the other members, you can see that in a farm among hens and chickens. The homosexual chicken is attacked when little by the rest of the group until death, and you will not call the police to say that a Leghorn is homophobic.
    Well, as I said in the title, this was my personal opinion. Any observation you would like to make will be welcomed.

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    Re: My personal opinion about intolerance

    i agree, it is areproductive and survival to encourage homosexuality, however homosexuals have some knack for art and music and other forms of expression which dont really further a culture technologically like say, the car or the gun, but give it culture nonetheless.

    however, I adhere to a rather Kantian ideal with regards to this. Kant stated that in the absence of religion, we should determine morality by if an action on question, if everyone did it would cause the extinction of the human race. so, for instance, homosexuality, abortion and other issues would be therefor considered immoral and wrong to a society. actions such as smoking marijuana or cheating on your wife would not, however, be morally wrong because they do not in and of themselves cause the destruction of humans.

    interesting topic though
    every year is getting shorter, never seen to find the time,
    plans that either come to nought, or half a page of scribble lines,
    hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way;
    the time has come, the song is over, thought I'd something more to say.

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    Re: My personal opinion about intolerance

    Quote Originally Posted by nätdeutsch View Post
    i agree, it is areproductive and survival to encourage homosexuality, however homosexuals have some knack for art and music and other forms of expression which dont really further a culture technologically like say, the car or the gun, but give it culture nonetheless.

    however, I adhere to a rather Kantian ideal with regards to this. Kant stated that in the absence of religion, we should determine morality by if an action on question, if everyone did it would cause the extinction of the human race. so, for instance, homosexuality, abortion and other issues would be therefor considered immoral and wrong to a society. actions such as smoking marijuana or cheating on your wife would not, however, be morally wrong because they do not in and of themselves cause the destruction of humans.

    interesting topic though
    Wow, I didn't know my opinions were similar to those of Kant, thanks for the comparisson.
    I want to set clear that I didn't want to say that we must kill other races or homosexuals, just gave my opinion on why there's intolerance towards them. Many homosexuals left a big heritage to humanity, like Alexander the Great and Julius Caesar ("the man of all roman women and the wife of all roman men", as his adversaires called him), well, they were homosexuals.
    I agree with what you said, except the marihuana, I do think drugs and similar vices denigrate our race, but not from the church's moralist point, from a biological and agnostic sociological point instead.

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    Re: My personal opinion about intolerance

    Quote Originally Posted by Mazorquero View Post
    Wow, I didn't know my opinions were similar to those of Kant, thanks for the comparisson.
    I want to set clear that I didn't want to say that we must kill other races or homosexuals, just gave my opinion on why there's intolerance towards them.
    oh, I agree, I dont want all homosexuals killed or other races, I just think we should let nature run its course and not encourage it. (natures course could be to discourage it, but not to extremes, i hope.)

    Kant has interesting theories on morality, I for one believe.
    every year is getting shorter, never seen to find the time,
    plans that either come to nought, or half a page of scribble lines,
    hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way;
    the time has come, the song is over, thought I'd something more to say.

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    Re: My personal opinion about intolerance

    Quote Originally Posted by nätdeutsch View Post
    however homosexuals have some knack for art and music and other forms of expression which dont really further a culture technologically like say, the car or the gun, but give it culture nonetheless.
    I think this needs disputing, as it's been allowed to become almost official dogma in our sick societies.
    I would begin by questioning the significant over representation of homosexuals in 'culture' by being a little more strict as to what we define as culture. I would suggest separating the roles of 'performer' and 'creator'. The former is often linked with a rather neurotic need to 'be seen' and a desparate craving for acceptance and acclaim, whereas the second is a more impressive sphere, of geniuses and innovators. Do my suspicions hold true here, I wonder?
    however, I adhere to a rather Kantian ideal with regards to this. Kant stated that in the absence of religion, we should determine morality by if an action on question, if everyone did it would cause the extinction of the human race. so, for instance, homosexuality, abortion and other issues would be therefor considered immoral and wrong to a society. actions such as smoking marijuana or cheating on your wife would not, however, be morally wrong because they do not in and of themselves cause the destruction of humans.
    Are they not however symptoms of a self obsessed irresponsible hedonistic attitude which will destroy humans?

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    Re: My personal opinion about intolerance

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu View Post
    Are they not however symptoms of a self obsessed irresponsible hedonistic attitude which will destroy humans?
    can you please explain the term hedonistic to me? and how it applies to this discussion?

    as for homosexuals, being perhaps more preformers than creators, if there are no preformers what good is creation?

    rhetorical drivel, i know, but its worth considering, as are your points.
    every year is getting shorter, never seen to find the time,
    plans that either come to nought, or half a page of scribble lines,
    hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way;
    the time has come, the song is over, thought I'd something more to say.

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    Re: My personal opinion about intolerance

    Quote Originally Posted by nätdeutsch View Post
    can you please explain the term hedonistic to me? and how it applies to this discussion?
    You were saying that adultery and the use of mind-altering and addictive substances were 'moral' or not 'immoral' from a Kantian viewpoint. I'm arguing against that. I mean hedonistic as searching for ever more ways to indulge one's thirst for direct short term pleasure, with disregard for the consequences on your society, not least in the less tactile but still very real sphere of general ethos and atmosphere.
    as for homosexuals, being perhaps more preformers than creators, if there are no preformers what good is creation?
    How can we compare an actor to Lev Tolstoi? I play a little piano, but could never compose a decent concerto.
    rhetorical drivel, i know, but its worth considering, as are your points.
    Please consider mine then!

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    Re: My personal opinion about intolerance

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu View Post
    You were saying that adultery and the use of mind-altering and addictive substances were 'moral' or not 'immoral' from a Kantian viewpoint. I'm arguing against that. I mean hedonistic as searching for ever more ways to indulge one's thirst for direct short term pleasure, with disregard for the consequences on your society, not least in the less tactile but still very real sphere of general ethos and atmosphere.

    How can we compare an actor to Lev Tolstoi? I play a little piano, but could never compose a decent concerto.

    Please consider mine then!
    I always consider your posts.

    As for the Kantian perspective, you have good points, please note that I adhere to Kantian ideals in the absence of religion, not in instead of, because I have a religion, which is why Im in agreement with your take on self indulgence, which is detrimental to society. look how rome fell.
    every year is getting shorter, never seen to find the time,
    plans that either come to nought, or half a page of scribble lines,
    hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way;
    the time has come, the song is over, thought I'd something more to say.

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    Re: My personal opinion about intolerance

    Quote Originally Posted by nätdeutsch View Post
    I always consider your posts.
    Even the ones where I photoshop CaliforniaLuv?
    As for the Kantian perspective, you have good points, please note that I adhere to Kantian ideals in the absence of religion, not in instead of, because I have a religion, which is why Im in agreement with your take on self indulgence, which is detrimental to society. look how rome fell.
    That last sentence is rather odd coming from someone of your sect!
    The dissolution of the Imperivm is a far more complex matter than suggested, and might better be viewed as a natural process, guaranteed from the days of Romulus.
    What's your take on using instinct as a guide in such matters?

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    Re: My personal opinion about intolerance

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu View Post
    Even the ones where I photoshop CaliforniaLuv?

    What's your take on using instinct as a guide in such matters?
    yes, the infamous "california love edits" are among your greatest.



    Instinct is often misinterpreted, I believe. sometimes people will say "go with your gut" and "dont think" but thinking is our instinct, its how we survived for a million years where there were plenty of animals stronger than us physically. we should use our instincts, but both those which we feel (when something "just isnt right" but we cant explain it) and that we think (when we need to use logic to correct a situation that "feeling" wouldnt help or would render worse.

    my take.

    so, I believe things should be thought through, unclouded by emotions,( impossible, but at least we shouldent act rashly) which come and go.
    every year is getting shorter, never seen to find the time,
    plans that either come to nought, or half a page of scribble lines,
    hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way;
    the time has come, the song is over, thought I'd something more to say.

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