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Thread: What if Germany/the Nazis Had Won World War II ?

  1. #151
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    Post Sv: Re: Sv: AW: Re: AW: Re: What If Germany Had Won WW2

    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    In regard to 6 years of peaceful research these assumptions are not provebale, neither are they actually reasonable, this is simply too short of time for a observation regarding this matter.
    As far as Einstein is concerned, you may tell me what it is that he contributed to science, his theories are nowhere put in use (except for GPS, which is still very debatable), and where scientists really hoped it would be of use (Quantums) it turned out it didn't even apply.
    I was talking about 12 years (1933-1945) but still, would you like to say that nothing of much importance could be done in 6 years?????

    Even some antisemites can readily admit that Einstein contributed significantly to science. Maybe your NS ideas get in the way of your truth-seeking eye. Thanks to Einstein the U.S. got the atom bomb, and that wouldn't have happened if he was in Germany, not to mention that if in Germany in a comfortable position as a doctor or professor, he would probably have helped Germany instead.

    I think we can agree that jews shouldn't have been in Germany in the first place, but when they are, and when they received top class education and proved themselves, why oh why wouldn't it be better to let them be helpful?

  2. #152
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    Re: What If Germany Had Won WW2

    Nothing much would have changed if Germany would have won the war. The world supremacy does not ever remain with one country. There are always contenders. Today, American domination is contested by large and small countries; Russia, China, India, Japan, France, Middle-East. In history, there were the Achemenids, Alexander, Kublai Khan, the Seljuks, Spain, Britain. Time passes on.

  3. #153
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    AW: Re: What If Germany Had Won WW2

    Quote Originally Posted by Aupmanyav View Post
    Nothing much would have changed if Germany would have won the war. The world supremacy does not ever remain with one country. There are always contenders. Today, American domination is contested by large and small countries; Russia, China, India, Japan, France,
    If Germany would have won, Japan also would have won. That means there would be no Russia, no China, and no India. France would exist, but would eat its soup with smaller spoons.
    Middle-East.
    ??? WTH is that? You mean the bunch of idiots blowing up each other?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nephilim
    i see hitler as an nationalsocialist- greenpeace hippie
    At first, Hitler was dubbed by the British Lords as "Gandhi in boots".

  4. #154
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    Re: AW: Re: What If Germany Had Won WW2

    Quote Originally Posted by Spjabork View Post
    ??? WTH is that? You mean the bunch of idiots blowing up each other?
    Each other and others, take care, they blew up America (including Pentagon, White House escaped narrowly), Britain, Russia, Spain, and India. Do not underestimate them.

    Yes, America, Britain, and France won. Result, Britain lost its supremacy in many lands, France is just another, Germany and Japan are not less important. Only future will tell about America.

  5. #155
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    Re: What If Germany Had Won WW2

    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post

    Depends on how "well" they we would have won.
    Without Britain as an operating base, the US could have tried as much as she wanted, an invasion of Europe .. eh Germany would have been impossible.


    Indeed, a truce, yet why would America enter a Cold War with NS "Europe"?
    The NS is not an universalistic idea like Capitalism and Communism (that's why I put Europe in quotation marks), and in such is not in direct competition to those ideas, only in the regard of defense, but with the land gained by the war Germany would be satisfied, that plus it's market economy, would make it a good partner actually.
    We know America as very opportunistic in this regard, so I doubt they would want to fight Germany.


    One should note, that most resistance groups were active during war occupation, without war there would be no real occupation anymore, France, Italy, Denmark, etc. They all would have become quite autonomous I think, not totally, but very much so, that resistance would certainly shrink to a very low level, compare to actual Soviet Occupation.


    Well, scientist are not equal, America was very lucky and got some great ones, and actually treated them very well, while the Russians mostly let the scientist die in some camps.
    And can you name some examples of the 5 year head start of the US, apart from the Bomb?

    i respectfully disagree on a few points:

    First, i adressed the fact that Britain would not be allowing us a foothold into Europe. An invasion via Asia would be a far more likely route, with a possible invasion via Italy. This second front would only be possible if Africa was in US hands (for the most part). Perhaps a Nordic invasion would be feasable as well, certainly the Norweigans and Finns hated Nazism enough to allow us to enter Europe via their nations.

    Second, as Nazi Europe would likely be a competitor for resources and trade, i am fairly certain we would continue our war if only for two reasons: 1) The humiliation of "trucing out" and the subsequent upper-hand the victor has, regarding the world market. 2) The fact that war with Imperial Japan was fought over territory and resources, not politics. Politics are irrelevant, trade is what we cared about. An example is that we sided with not just USSR but
    Ho Chi Minh, Tito, and perhaps others which slip my mind just now.

    Third, the Resistance Groups were pan-Europa, they ranged from Yugoslav Communists to Finnish Nationalists, and everyone in between. A guerrilla war, coupled with the strengthening of the Asian ComBloc would result in Communist-supplied resistance fighters. Nasty combination, as we have seen in Vietnam and other places.

    As for Soviet versus US advancements... i believe we perfected the jet engine before them. The aforementined atom bomb, we had the first "smartbomb" (The BAT, i believe it was called), but other specifics i do not know off the top of my head. We were ahead otf them as far as rockets go, after Kennedy initiated the space program, and our IRBM's and ICBM's were superior, if my military friends are being truthful with me. The big factor was our economic system allowed for competition which results in superior products, something Uncle Joe had to artificially create during and before the Great Patriotic War.

  6. #156
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    Re: Sv: What If Germany Had Won WW2

    Quote Originally Posted by Nephilim View Post
    i Am quite perplexed when it comes to hitler and germany we grow up learning all faults about nazi germany and never knowing the real germany,
    The more i watch hitler on tv or pictures in an book or websites i really start to see an humanist vegetarian anti-war, ecologist an caring man ,animal friend, intellectual, an angel of light sent by god in an age when no one wanted him,

    the war mongers was stalin roosevelt churchill,
    churchill did more damage to england then hitler ever did,england was an superpower before the war and after the war an shadow of yesterday

    The victory over germany during the war was an loss for europe because communist russia and commersial america took over the world stage and left europe as minor importance in world politics,

    And i really think hitler was finlands best friend during the war an helper in need,if germany had won the war my grandparents would Have lived in old karelia to an old age in peace and without the stinking enviroment toxics russia sends out to finland that poisons the crystal blue rivers and lakes and the air,

    The only thing i hate by nazi germany was himmler and all the super-nazis,
    i think hitler also hated them,
    i see hitler as an nationalsocialist- greenpeace hippie


    the most misunderstood man in history



    i think this websites sums up what i think about hitler http://www.adolfthegreat.com/


    ps i am not an nazi because i think hitler was an great man and i dont even see hitler as an nazi!! the only nazis were himmler and his idiot crew that did more damage to germany then the allied powers
    well, Stalin signed a pact to AVOID war with your speed-freak idol. Roosevelt was an ISOLATIONIST until Japan dragged us in, and then Nazi Germany declared war on the US, and Churchill was aggressive to counter Nazi aggression!

    The only intelligent Nazi was Rommel.

    Hitler was probably the cause of the defeat of Nai Germany:

    Opened a second front, STUPID IDEA

    Purged Germany of its Jewish population, STUPID IDEA

    Selayed the advancement of weapons designs, most notable the Stg. 44, because he didn't use them when he was in the trenches, STUPID IDEA.

    Crimeny! I'm going to be late for work if i don't leave now, see y'all later.

  7. #157
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    Re: Sv: Re: Sv: AW: Re: AW: Re: What If Germany Had Won WW2

    Quote Originally Posted by Gere View Post
    I was talking about 12 years (1933-1945) but still, would you like to say that nothing of much importance could be done in 6 years?????
    No, but I would like to say that this is not related to a change of an education system of 6 years back (I am saying 6 because war years certainly are different regarding politics), it would take more time to see an effect.
    After all there were many things of importance done, from people who had an educational background before 1933 mostly though

    Quote Originally Posted by Gere View Post
    Thanks to Einstein the U.S. got the atom bomb, and that wouldn't have happened if he was in Germany, not to mention that if in Germany in a comfortable position as a doctor or professor, he would probably have helped Germany instead.
    Well, that's an assumption, I never said Einstein was an idiot, he certainly could do some things well. He is one of the founders of jewish physics after all

    Quote Originally Posted by Gere View Post
    why oh why wouldn't it be better to let them [Jews] be helpful?
    It's just not consequential, false tolerance so to say.
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

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    Re: What If Germany Had Won WW2

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSmokyGod View Post
    As for Soviet versus US advancements... i believe we perfected the jet engine before them. The aforementined atom bomb, we had the first "smartbomb" (The BAT, i believe it was called), but other specifics i do not know off the top of my head. We were ahead otf them as far as rockets go, after Kennedy initiated the space program, and our IRBM's and ICBM's were superior, if my military friends are being truthful with me. The big factor was our economic system allowed for competition which results in superior products, something Uncle Joe had to artificially create during and before the Great Patriotic War.
    OK, you had your bomb first and better missiles, even then, they had enough to destroy America.

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    Re: What If Germany Had Won WW2

    Quote Originally Posted by Aupmanyav View Post
    OK, you had your bomb first and better missiles, even then, they had enough to destroy America.
    why yes, they did. And combined we could have nuked the entire world several times over. Your point?

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    Question If the Nazis Had Won, Environmentalism Would Reign

    This is a counterfactual "what if" article from the new scientist. It says that if the NAZIs had won the war, they would have introduced laws enforcing environmentalism, vegetarianism and anti-vivesection.

    Interesting to find something like this in a pop culture magazine.

    What if? 1943

    A darker shade of green

    If the Nazis had won, a sinister form of environmentalism would reign, says Steve Fuller

    IN EARLY 1941, the Nazis invaded Russia, a disastrous decision that ultimately cost them the second world war. But it wasn’t the only course they could have taken. As John I points out in his 1999 essay ‘How Hitler could have won the war”, the Nazis could easily have chosen to conquer the Middle East’s oilfields instead. Even if this had not been entirely successful, Hitler would have probably ended up controlling enough of Europe’s energy supplies to force a stalemate, ending the war two or three years early. This outcome would have prevented most— if not all —of the Holocaust, which may have been inspired by the cosmic approval that Hitler read into his early Russian victories. The consequences for science would also have been profound.

    Had the Nazis won (or at least not lost), the scientific agenda of the next half-century would have been dominated not by subatomic physics and nuclear energy, but by ecology. Ideas such as biodiversity, the precautionary principle and animal rights would be the dominant concepts of a political form of social Darwinism, built on the tenets of racial hygiene.

    At first sight this seems an unpalatable conclusion. It is hard to believe that the success of Nazism could have given rise to a world with any redeeming features. But even in the real world, the Nazi defeat did not stop much of their science from being assimilated by the victor nations. Had we been heir to a Nazi victory, Nazi science would now appear in an even more positive light.

    Suppose, then, a 1943 peace treaty allowed Hitler to retain his European and Asian conquests. Nazi economists, aware of Germany’s lack of natural resources, would have demanded a re-agrarianisation of conquered nations to prevent them from becoming competitors. Command over at least some of the Middle East’s oil would have allowed the Nazis to limit the pace of competition among the remaining free nations. The Nazi empire would thus have become a global superpower.

    What would that have meant for science and technology? The ideology of racial hygiene — which pre-dated Hitler’s rise and

    declined only with his fall — took Earth’s point of view, nowadays popularised as Gaia, with deadly seriousness. Racial hygienists held, for example, that global misery resulted from misguided human attempts to reverse the effects of natural selection. Thus, one important result would have been the end of mass immunisation, which the Nazis considered emblematic of counter-selection”. For racial hygienists, vaccines did not restore the body to a natural state, but artificially enhanced the body. Vaccine research had also historically been driven by the mixing of peoples caused by imperial expansion, which despite their disregard for human life, the Nazis abhorred vivisection led racial hygienists to conclude that only states with stable and “pure” populations could survive naturally. The implications for medical research and policy would be clear. The Nazis would have omitted vaccines from what we now call preventive medicine, a field in which they were otherwise pioneers.

    This interest in preventive medicine, however, meant that research into the health effects of radiation, asbestos, heavy metals, alcohol and tobacco would have advanced more rapidly. The Nazis would have also mandated the production of organic foods, outlawed vivisection and encouraged vegetarianism and natural healing. What is more, the eco-friendly Nazis’ sensitivity to the scarcity of the world’s oil supply would have sparked an early scientific interest in curtailing carbon emissions and shifting to alternative energy. In short, the late 194os would have seen scientifically informed policies that only began to be pursued for real in the late 1960s.

    There would also have been compulsory sterilisation and permissible euthanasia, done in the name of reversing the “damage” caused to the human ecosystem by those 19th-century enemies of biodiversity, the bacteriologists Louis Pasteur and Robert Koch, who failed to grasp that, say, tuberculosis was nature’s way of culling an unsustainable human population. Overtime, as a balance to nature was deemed to have been restored, sterilisation and euthanasia might no longer have been required.

    All of these developments presuppose a state-enforced “corporate environmentalism” that would have reached an early accommodation between big business and the environment. In the process, however, the value of human life would have become negotiable. Those who raised objections to the natural selection of Homo sapiens would be consigned to the political and scientific margins. The centre ground would be occupied by debates over whether the culling of humans should be an active or passive process.

    The Nazis would also have pioneered the first manned space missions. They would have realised that sending surplus people into space might enable them both to test the limits of their most advanced physical sciences — astrophysics and aeronautics—and to expand the Reich’s carrying capacity to other planets or orbiting space stations. The latter would have come to be seen as a humane yet informed alternative to culling.

    Finally, what of nuclear physics? An early end to the war would have halted the race to build the atomic bomb, which the Nazis had undertaken grudgingly in response to the Manhattan Project. And with much of the ecosystem under direct political control, there would be little need to research nuclear energy. The very idea of smashing atoms to release untold energy, as outlined in Albert Einstein’s letter of 2 August1939 encouraging President Roosevelt along these lines, would have been used to stoke the flames of anti-Semitism. Jews would have been demonised for having recommended a bomb that upon explosion would have brought about a different but equally lethal final solution.

    http://solohq.solopassion.com/Spirit/News/796.shtml

    What do you think anyway? Are you environmentalist? Do you think the concepts reconcile?

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