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Thread: Which Countries Are Germanic?

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    Re: Which countries are Germanic?

    I am not here to give anyone a hard time, but this is just the way I see the Germanic thing in todays modern world.

    aside from that, the German people have a great history and culture those that I consider Germans, and those are the people of Germany, the Germanic thing is irrelevant to me, the Germans are unique among themselves.

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    Re: Which countries are Germanic?

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog View Post
    Iwill let the dictionary explain it to you!

    Germanic=relating to, orcharacteristic of Germany, its people, or their language.

    or relating to Germanic or Germanic speaking peoples

    A group of languages of common origin including English, German, Dutch, and the Scandinavian languages.
    I'm not certain which dictionary you're using. I tend to use the OED. They list definitions chronologically (rather than, say, based on frequency). Their first definition is the same as the first definition you list here, but they add that it is a "chiefly historical" definition, which means basically that no one uses the word that way anymore.

    The word is currently used pretty much only with some of the later definitions you've given here. Like these:
    relating to Germanic or Germanic speaking peoples

    A group of languages of common origin including English, German, Dutch, and the Scandinavian languages.
    WordNet, a Princeton-based online dictionary that's more corpus-based lists their definitions in order of frequency of current usage. The whole "related to Germany" definition doesn't even show up in their lexicon. That suggests that no one is really using the word Germanic with such a definition in writing these days (WordNet uses corpora of written English).


    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog View Post
    now what I was saying is that with some of the Germanic countries you mentioned including England, I do not beleive they identify with the German culture and are independent and absorb their own identify and culture.

    The Scandinavians and Dutch are more conscious of their German roots, not so much the others.
    Don't get too tied to that archaic definition. No one else here is using the word Germanic to mean "relating to, or characteristic of Germany, its people, or their language." If you keep using that definition when the rest of the English-language community has moved on, you'll end up having a monologue. We all like discussion here since it is, as you've rightly pointed out, a discussion board, and everyone knows that discussion is best when it involves different points of view; but discussion only works when everybody speaks the same language. If you're going to use 19th-century definitions for words, then eventually you just won't be able to discuss things with anybody.



    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog
    aside from that, the German people have a great history and culture those that I consider Germans, and those are the people of Germany, the Germanic thing is irrelevant to me, the Germans are unique among themselves.
    Hey, Germans are great. No question. But don't forget that the English language has moved on. The word Germanic hasn't had anything to do with a specific relationship with Germany for close to a hundred years. And maybe longer — the last citation in the OED under that definition is from 1845.

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    Re: Which countries are Germanic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leofric View Post
    I'm not certain which dictionary you're using. I tend to use the OED. They list definitions chronologically (rather than, say, based on frequency). Their first definition is the same as the first definition you list here, but they add that it is a "chiefly historical" definition, which means basically that no one uses the word that way anymore.

    The word is currently used pretty much only with some of the later definitions you've given here. Like these:


    WordNet, a Princeton-based online dictionary that's more corpus-based lists their definitions in order of frequency of current usage. The whole "related to Germany" definition doesn't even show up in their lexicon. That suggests that no one is really using the word Germanic with such a definition in writing these days (WordNet uses corpora of written English).



    Don't get too tied to that archaic definition. No one else here is using the word Germanic to mean "relating to, or characteristic of Germany, its people, or their language." If you keep using that definition when the rest of the English-language community has moved on, you'll end up having a monologue. We all like discussion here since it is, as you've rightly pointed out, a discussion board, and everyone knows that discussion is best when it involves different points of view; but discussion only works when everybody speaks the same language. If you're going to use 19th-century definitions for words, then eventually you just won't be able to discuss things with anybody.




    Hey, Germans are great. No question. But don't forget that the English language has moved on. The word Germanic hasn't had anything to do with a specific relationship with Germany for close to a hundred years. And maybe longer — the last citation in the OED under that definition is from 1845.
    Well if you read all my posts, you will see that is what I have been saying all along, just about every thing that you said and that is that Germanic is not relevant today.

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    Re: Which countries are Germanic?

    You're still not getting the point, bulldog. He never said that the definition of Germanic didn't matter, he said that it was no longer applied to a strictly German sense - that is unless you are specificially referring to comparative legal studies, which is probably the last area where the word "Germanic" means "Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Liechtenstein"

    Either way, I could add more fuel to the fire, but I will let it stand for now. It's not late enough at night yet to start a huge case for the Celts...yet.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

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    Re: Which countries are Germanic?

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog View Post
    Well if you read all my posts, you will see that is what I have been saying all along, just about every thing that you said and that is that Germanic is not relevant today.
    Over 4.7 million hits on Google.

    Name:  germanic_google.JPG
Views: 62
Size:  131.0 KB

    Sounds pretty relevant to me.

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    Re: Which countries are Germanic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leofric View Post
    Over 4.7 million hits on Google.

    Name:  germanic_google.JPG
Views: 62
Size:  131.0 KB

    Sounds pretty relevant to me.
    How many people do you think in England today and in the last 100 to present time etc, are conscious of the fact that they are Germanic, I think they just identify with their Anglo/Saxon heritage, this is just my impression of the situation and opinion, it is not to say I am right and you are wrong,

    I am not saying that the countries you mention are not Germanic, what I am saying is that I don't beleive the average people in these countries are even aware of it, and each country sees themselves as unigue to their culture and language and don't identify with other European Countries or people.

    That's why I think the Germanic label is not really relevant today, maybe in the past it was.

    To the average American Germanic means a person who is German, but maybe in Europe some see it differnently, I am giving an American perspective on this issue.

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    Re: Which countries are Germanic?

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog View Post
    How many people do you think in England today and in the last 100 to present time etc, are conscious of the fact that they are Germanic, I think they just identify with their Anglo/Saxon heritage, this is just my impression of the situation and opinion, it is not to say I am right and you are wrong.
    Well, I will help you then and tell you that you are simlpy wrong. The Germanic connection in continental Europe was destroyed on purpose after WW2, and it left the word "Germanic" as politically uncorrect, however everyone sees and hears the similarities between the Dutch "Deutsch" and Germans, Danes and the English.
    Most people simply lack knowledge to bond these phenomenons together under the umbrella of Germanicness, but they do see a bond, from the most politically correct liberal to mere punks.
    It is totally different than to Italians, Poles or even the French.

    At least this what I can see in my environment, while not everyone likes the other Germanics (then there are many Franks who don't like Bavarians ) they acknowledge their similarity, even unconsciously, quite often.
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

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    Re: Which countries are Germanic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedwig View Post
    It's logical that the English do not see themselves as Germans. Why would they, when they aren't? But what they do share in common is the fact that they both speak Germanic languages and have common Germanic ancestors. The fact that Germanic people hold a historic, linguistic, genetic relationship has been proven. See Relation of Germanic Peoples regarding this matter.
    Well, I think with that said he has no more reason to plead ignorance. As Rand said, "Those who have rejected Reason cannot be conquered by it."

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    Re: Which countries are Germanic?

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog View Post
    How many people do you think in England today and in the last 100 to present time etc, are conscious of the fact that they are Germanic, I think they just identify with their Anglo/Saxon heritage, this is just my impression of the situation and opinion, it is not to say I am right and you are wrong,

    I am not saying that the countries you mention are not Germanic, what I am saying is that I don't beleive the average people in these countries are even aware of it, and each country sees themselves as unigue to their culture and language and don't identify with other European Countries or people.

    That's why I think the Germanic label is not really relevant today, maybe in the past it was.

    To the average American Germanic means a person who is German, but maybe in Europe some see it differnently, I am giving an American perspective on this issue.
    Okay, ignoring the confusion you seem to have had over the meaning of Germanic and your assertion about what the term means to "the average American," let me see if I understand the good point that you might actually be trying to make here.

    Are you saying that you think few people care about history or their heritage enough to see commonality with people beyond current political borders?

    If so, then I think you're right. In fact, I'd go further. I think too many people don't care enough about history and their heritage to care about their own living grandparents, let alone their compatriots (people of the same country) or their conationals (people of the same ethnicity).

    We have been seeing in the West over the past several decades a major disconnect between generations that is quickly taking its toll. One major effect is that it's plunging our society deeper into a solipsistic nightmare that tears apart all our ethnic and even familial bonds. Personally, I tend to blame urbanization.

    If your point is that that sort of thing is occurring, then I agree.

    However, I get the impression that you're also trying to say that since people don't care about their heritage, we shouldn't try to preserve it. If you're trying to say that, then I must wholeheartedly disagree.

    Even if we can convince no one else of the vital importance of maintaining cultural ties to our past, failure to do so for ourselves will only cause us to fall into the same pit everyone else is falling into.

    But hopefully, we can convince people that heritage matters. Hopefully we can help people look up from their cell phones and iPods and see again their brothers and sisters and reawaken an innate sense of responsibility toward them. Hopefully, we can even help people look across the seas that divide them from their own kin and reach out together to build a strong future together on the foundation of their shared heritage.

    The fact that the world is sick doesn't prove that we shouldn't try to heal it. If anything, it should inspire us to redouble our curative efforts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leofric View Post
    Are you saying that you think few people care about history or their heritage enough to see commonality with people beyond current political borders
    Yes

    If so, then I think you're right. In fact, I'd go further. I think too many people don't care enough about history and their heritage to care about their own living grandparents, let alone their compatriots (people of the same country) or their conationals (people of the same ethnicity)
    I agree

    We have been seeing in the West over the past several decades a major disconnect between generations that is quickly taking its toll. One major effect is that it's plunging our society deeper into a solipsistic nightmare that tears apart all our ethnic and even familial bonds. Personally, I tend to blame urbanization

    If your point is that that sort of thing is occurring, then I agree
    That's my point

    However, I get the impression that you're also trying to say that since people don't care about their heritage, we shouldn't try to preserve it. If you're trying to say that, then I must wholeheartedly disagree
    I think we should all preserve our heritage so we know who we are and where we started

    Even if we can convince no one else of the vital importance of maintaining cultural ties to our past, failure to do so for ourselves will only cause us to fall into the same pit everyone else is falling into
    I agree with that also, I am very conscious of my roots, and always read historical books about where my Grandparents came from(Italy) but European history as well, I identify myself as a European/American, because all of Europe has a great historical history.

    But hopefully, we can convince people that heritage matters. Hopefully we can help people look up from their cell phones and iPods and see again their brothers and sisters and reawaken an innate sense of responsibility toward them. Hopefully, we can even help people look across the seas that divide them from their own kin and reach out together to build a strong future together on the foundation of their shared heritage.

    The fact that the world is sick doesn't prove that we shouldn't try to heal it. If anything, it should inspire us to redouble our curative efforts.
    That's the way I feel, but in America the neo-cons and Zionist are practically abolishing European history in the schools and in the media, we are all portrayed as evil and bad, and with the influx of 3rd world people, you hear more and more about the inferior 3 rd world non-white history, European Americans are being ignored, even though our ancestors made America at one time one of the most power full Country in the world, that's why all these mexicans, Paki's etc are coming hear by the millions, and are destroying the Great European culture that America was built on.

    Quote Originally Posted by SineNomine View Post
    Well, I think with that said he has no more reason to plead ignorance. As Rand said, "Those who have rejected Reason cannot be conquered by it."
    Because a persons opinion does not go along with everything the majority here say, does not make him ignorant, only an ignorant person would say that.
    Who are you to decide what is reason, reason also applies to you also, no one has a monopoly on reason, when you talk about history different people analyze it in different ways, what you consider reason on a subject, others might think it is unreasonable, so who is the legit arbitrator on this issue.

    Some people if you don't go along with them they resort to insults, because they can't handle a disagreement with their way of thinking.

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