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Thread: The destiny of the Saints

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    Post The destiny of the Saints

    I ask this primarily of Pushkin, but anyone else with an opinion is welcome to comment.

    I just noticed in the Summa Theologica, that St Thomas Aquinas says the following - "According to those who maintain that the chief devil was of the highest order, it is probable that some fell of every order; just as men are taken up into every order to supply for the angelic ruin."

    Am I reading this correctly to mean that perhaps the numbers of those humans who will be saved is the same as the numbers of the fallen angels, in order to make-up for this shortfall in numbers?

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    Post Re: The destiny of the Saints

    Quote Originally Posted by Milesian
    I ask this primarily of Pushkin, but anyone else with an opinion is welcome to comment.

    I just noticed in the Summa Theologica, that St Thomas Aquinas says the following - "According to those who maintain that the chief devil was of the highest order, it is probable that some fell of every order; just as men are taken up into every order to supply for the angelic ruin."

    Am I reading this correctly to mean that perhaps the numbers of those humans who will be saved is the same as the numbers of the fallen angels, in order to make-up for this shortfall in numbers?
    Sounds like he's talking about rank, not number.
    "Whatever is done from love always occurs beyond good and evil." - F. Nietzsche

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    Post Re: The destiny of the Saints

    I really don't know. I try to stay away from the topic of how many people get saved or not. I know the Eastern Churches aren't are strict as the Roman Rite on this question.

    I'll have to check, but I do believe the Eastern Church upholds that while theres no salvation outside of Christ, there is salvation outside the church itself.

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    Post Re: The destiny of the Saints

    Quote Originally Posted by Pushkin
    I really don't know. I try to stay away from the topic of how many people get saved or not. I know the Eastern Churches aren't are strict as the Roman Rite on this question.

    I'll have to check, but I do believe the Eastern Church upholds that while theres no salvation outside of Christ, there is salvation outside the church itself.

    Possible Scoob, although it is mentioning ranks, I just wondered if it ciuld also be implied that the numbers were to make up for the shortfall from the Fall of the Angels. It doesn't explicilty state this in the Summa, I was just musing if that could be read into it.

    Pushkin, I didn't realise that.
    Does that mean that the Eastern Catholic Rite does not adhere to Extra Ecclesia Nulla Salus?

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    Post Re: The destiny of the Saints

    Theres a lot of things the Eastern rite adheres to that doesn't apply to the Roman rite(and vice versa) Need we forget, much of the stuff many Traditional Roman Catholics are so PO about Vatican II actually originated from the Eastern rites, like giving mass/litgury in the venicular.

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    Post Re: The destiny of the Saints

    Quote Originally Posted by Pushkin
    Theres a lot of things the Eastern rite adheres to that doesn't apply to the Roman rite(and vice versa) Need we forget, much of the stuff many Traditional Roman Catholics are so PO about Vatican II actually originated from the Eastern rites, like giving mass/litgury in the venicular.
    I knew that six Protestant ministers wrote the Novus Ordo Missae with Anibale Bugnini (Who was later exiled for being a Freemason), but I didn't think Eastern rite practised many similar things.

    However, Extra Ecclesia is not a matter of Church discipline which can vary between rites, but an Infallibly defined dogma of the Church.
    You know I mean absolutely no disrespect, but is it possible not to adhere to a Church dogma and still be considered in communion with Rome?

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    Post Re: The destiny of the Saints

    Actually, I just found the answer to my initial question is yes.
    For anyone's info who wishes it, it is explicitly stated by St Augustine in the Enchiridon:

    CHAP. 29.--THE RESTORED PART OF HUMANITY SHALL, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE PROMISES OF GOD, SUCCEED TO THE PLACE WHICH THE REBELLIOUS ANGELS LOST.

    And so it pleased God, the Creator and Governor of the universe, that, since the whole body of the angels had not fallen into rebellion, the part of them which had fallen should remain in perdition eternally, and that the other part, which had in the rebellion remained steadfastly loyal, should rejoice in the sure and certain knowledge of their eternal happiness; but that, on the other hand, mankind, who constituted the remainder of the intelligent creation, having perished without exception under sin, both original and actual, and the consequent punishments, should be in part restored, and should fill up the gap which the rebellion and fall of the devils had left in the company of the angels. For this is the promise to the saints, that at the resurrection they shall be equal to the angels of God. And thus the Jerusalem which is above, which is the mother of us all, the city of God, shall not be spoiled of any of the number of her citizens, shall perhaps reign over even a more abundant population. We do not know the number either of the saints or of the devils; but we know that the children of the holy mother who was called barren on earth shall succeed to the place of the fallen angels, and shall dwell for ever in that peaceful abode from which they fell. But the number of the citizens, whether as it now is or as it shall be, is present to the thoughts of the great Creator, who calls those things which are not as though they were, and ordereth all things in measure, and number, and weight.

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