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Thread: Mystery of Pope's 'approval' of Gibson film

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    Post Mystery of Pope's 'approval' of Gibson film

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/pope/story...130233,00.html

    Mystery of Pope's 'approval' of Gibson film

    Austen Ivereigh
    Saturday January 24, 2004
    The Guardian

    Controversy has broken out in the Vatican over whether the Pope has given his approval to Mel Gibson's film about the crucifixion, The Passion of Christ.
    The issue is whether he endorsed the film with the comment that "it is as it was" after two private showings, accompanied by his Polish secretary, Archbishop Stanislaw Dziwisz, last month.

    He meant, presumably, that the film was an accurate representation of the crucifixion as told in the Gospels.

    That is how the producers of the film, which is publicly released next month, have taken the comment. One, Steve McEveety, told the Wall Street Journal that the archbishop had told him what the Pope had said.

    As such it was a coup for Gibson, an ultra-traditional Catholic who has been working to counter the view of US experts on Catholic-Jewish relations that the film reverts to an anti-semitic view of the Jews as responsible for Christ's death.

    A series of private screenings in Rome at the College of the Legionaries of Christ, a body of traditionalists in communion with the Pope, has resulted in a series of endorsements by curial heavyweights and theologians.

    But two of America's most prominent Jewish leaders, who managed to see a copy of the film, said yesterday that they regarded it as incendiary and anti-semitic.

    No sooner had the Pope's alleged remark been reported than some in the Vatican rushed to deny it and others insisted it was correct.

    While the US Catholic News Service was quoting one official as denying that the Pope had said any such thing, another apparently well-placed official was confirming it to the American National Catholic Reporter.

    Archbishop Dziwisz himself finally said publicly that the Pope had not expressed an opinion, because he never commented on art.

    But that seems to have been contradicted by an email from the official papal spokesman, Joaquín Navarro-Valls, whose task is to clarify such matters.

    On Tuesday Mel Gibson's infuriated production company, Icon Productions, released an email from Dr Navarro-Valls which said: "Nobody can deny it. So keep mentioning it as the authorised point of reference.

    "I would try to make the words 'It is as it was' the leitmotif in any discussion on the film."

    The email ended: "Repeat the words again and again and again."

    Publicly Dr Navarro-Valls is sticking to the official line, that the message was "not authentic". But investigation showed that the email address was his, and that it had been sent from a Vatican server.

    Dr Navarro-Valls's first public statement on Thursday confirmed that the Pope had seen the film, and described it as "a cinematographic transposition of the historical event of the passion of Jesus Christ according to the accounts of the Gospel", which is more or less what the Pope is supposed to have said.

    But he added: "It is a common practice of the Holy Father not to express public opinions on artistic works," leaving open the possibility that the Pope had acted unusually. He neither confirmed nor denied the papal remark.

    Mr McEveety met Archbishop Dziwisz in the company of Jan Michelini, who worked as an assistant producer on the film, and his father Alberto, a well-known Italian journalist and politician.

    Alberto Michelini and Dr Navarro-Valls are both leading members of the traditionalist organisation Opus Dei, and Jan and his twin sisters were the first babies baptised by John Paul after he became Pope.

    That connection explains how Mr McEveety managed to secure the private papal screening, and the subsequent meeting with the archbishop.

    Almost nobody emerges from the debacle with credit, and accusations of bad faith are surfacing.

    Did the Pope really say it, and if so, have his officials lied? If the remark was supposed to be private, has Icon Productions abused an ailing Pope's confidence by publicising it?

    Surely the Vatican could not be allowing the Pope to be exploited by Mel Gibson's formidable marketing operation. Could it?

    · Austen Ivereigh is deputy editor of the Tablet

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    Post Re: Mystery of Pope's 'approval' of Gibson film

    Well this is typical.
    If all was well in the world, the Vatican would waste no time to come out and publicly sing the praises of such an accurate portrayl of Christ's crucifixation.
    Unfortunately with so many enemies within the Church, there seems to be a campaign to hush up any praise and send out conflicting messages.
    I wish the church could regain the strength of it's convictions and stop kow-towing to political correctness.

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    Post Re: Mystery of Pope's 'approval' of Gibson film

    Is the film released yet??? I thought it wasn't.

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    Post Re: Mystery of Pope's 'approval' of Gibson film

    Quote Originally Posted by AWAR
    Is the film released yet??? I thought it wasn't.
    I'm sure the special ones get to see it before everyone else

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    Re: Mystery of Pope's 'approval' of Gibson film

    Quote Originally Posted by Vojvoda
    I'm sure the special ones get to see it before everyone else
    So, the Pope and Njord Eriksson get to see it then
    I'd make the pope wait in line

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    Post Re: Mystery of Pope's 'approval' of Gibson film

    Quote Originally Posted by AWAR
    So, the Pope and Njord Eriksson get to see it then
    I'd make the pope wait in line
    I'm sure Njord got to see the x-rated version



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    Post Re: Mystery of Pope's 'approval' of Gibson film

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki
    But two of America's most prominent Jewish leaders, who managed to see a copy of the film, said yesterday that they regarded it as incendiary and anti-semitic.
    Pious Jews believe that Jesus ('Alaihis Salaam) suffers five deaths a day in Hell, one in boiling excrement, among other hateful things.

    Some Talmudic quotes:

    Jesus was born a bastard (Jewish Encyclopedia, "Jesus"; Yebamoth, 49b).

    Mary, the mother of Jesus, was a whore and "played the harlot with carpenters" (Sanhedrin, 106a,b).

    Jesus "practised sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy" (Sanhedrin, 43a).

    Jesus was punished and sent to Hell where he ended up in "boiling hot excrement" (Gittin, 56b,57a).

    Christians will go to Hell "and be punished there for all generations" (Rosh Hashanah, 17a).

    Those who read "the works of the Judeo-Christians, i.e., the New Testament" will end up in Hell (Sanhedrin, 90a).

    The books of the Christians "may not be saved from a fire, but they must be burnt in their place, they and the Divine Names occurring in them" (Shabbath, 116a).

    It is lawful for a girl three years old to have sexual intercourse (Abodah Zarah, 37a; Kethuboth, 11b,39a; Sanhedrin, 55b,69a,b; Yebamoth, 12a,57b,58a,60b).

    When a man commits sodomy with a boy under nine years of age, it "is not deemed as pederasty" (Sanhedrin, 54b,55a).

    Sexual intercourse with a boy under the age of eight is lawful since it isn't fornication (Sanhedrin, 69b).

    - supplied by Irving Spielberg, spielberg1@hotmail.com

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    Post Re: Mystery of Pope's 'approval' of Gibson film

    No derespects to Karol(his given name), but he is getting very ill and should not worry about little things like that. It is Hollywood, which is the Jews fault for the movie in the first place and he being a high Catholic leader should speak out against Jewish Hollywood, as a matter of fact, I am sure Papa Pio XII would be thrilled to speak out against Jewish Hollywood. Yes I grew up Catholic but no longer believe, but I made my decision over some intellectual thinking and I think it is better to be an atheist.

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