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Thread: Corded Sub-Type

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    Re: Corded Sub-Type

    Hello, for those interested in the Corded racial type, I got two textbook examples (cant help it, im a classifying machine )

    Todd Fields

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    Brandon Routh

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  2. #12
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    Re: Corded Sub-Type

    Bush is the last person I would think about when Corded is mentioned...

    Original Corded people - came from the South of Russia. They are true pro-Nordid people with extremely high and long skulls... East Nordids and Tronders can be cosidered quite close to Corded type due to their high-headed skulls... Anyway, Corded type is the true Nordid type that is a good example why people who consider 'Nordid as depigmented meds" are totally wrong...

    Here is my scan from the Coon's book with the map of the origin of the Corded people -

    http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3.../corded_vf.jpg

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    Re: Corded Sub-Type

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicola_Canadian View Post
    Bush is the last person I would think about when Corded are mentioned...

    Original Corded people - came from the South of Russia. They are true pro-Nordid people with extremely high and long skulls... East Nordids and Tronders can be cosidered quite close to Corded type due to their high-headed skulls... Anyway, Corded type is the true Nordid type that is a good example why people who consider 'Nordid as depigmented meds" are totally wrong...

    Here is my scan from the Coon's book with the map of the origin of the Corded people -

    http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3.../corded_vf.jpg
    .

    Cordeds have large skulls- not particulary high among the mediterranean family.
    The corded is a mediterranean type. we nordics are a mixture of corded and danubian meds. the nordic race is not just the corded unless you invent your own definition.

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    AW: Re: Corded Sub-Type

    Quote Originally Posted by raboy View Post
    .

    Cordeds have large skulls- not particulary high among the mediterranean family.
    The corded is a mediterranean type. we nordics are a mixture of corded and danubian meds. the nordic race is not just the corded unless you invent your own definition.
    Cordeds Nordoid or Mediterranoid status can be discussed, but the usual consensus is Nordoid, so at least rather in the Nordid spectrum than in any other. Furthermore this Danubian + Corded story of Coon is relatively uninteresting - the mixture happened with Cromagnoids, old Nordids from Scandinavia, Atlantomediterranids in the West and Pontids in the East.
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    Re: AW: Re: Corded Sub-Type

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa View Post
    Cordeds Nordoid or Mediterranoid status can be discussed, but the usual consensus is Nordoid, so at least rather in the Nordid spectrum than in any other. Furthermore this Danubian + Corded story of Coon is relatively uninteresting - the mixture happened with Cromagnoids, old Nordids from Scandinavia, Atlantomediterranids in the West and Pontids in the East.
    cordeds are both part of the nordic race and mediterraneans. same is true for nordics and atlanto meds : they are nordic or atlanto med and mediterranean.
    That nordics are a mixture of corded and danubians is evident to anybody with understanding of morphology that examines a nordic type.

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    AW: Re: AW: Re: Corded Sub-Type

    Quote Originally Posted by raboy View Post
    cordeds are both part of the nordic race and mediterraneans. same is true for nordics and atlanto meds : they are nordic or atlanto med and mediterranean.
    That nordics are a mixture of corded and danubians is evident to anybody with understanding of morphology that examines a nordic type.
    Unetice was the result of Corded types mixing with older "Danubian" or better Atlanto-Pontid and gracile Mediterranid variants. The definition of "Danubian" of Coons is somewhat more problematic though, as are his examples.

    About Aunjetitz (Unetice):
    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=8489

    You can't reduce the results we see today to the simple formula of "Corded mixing with Danubian", there were much more elements involved and there was a great importance in later selection too.

    The border between Nordoid and Mediterranoid was partly quite difficult to draw in prehistoric skull material.
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    Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: Corded Sub-Type

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa View Post
    Unetice was the result of Corded types mixing with older "Danubian" or better Atlanto-Pontid and gracile Mediterranid variants. The definition of "Danubian" of Coons is somewhat more problematic though, as are his examples.

    About Aunjetitz (Unetice):
    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=8489

    You can't reduce the results we see today to the simple formula of "Corded mixing with Danubian", there were much more elements involved and there was a great importance in later selection too.

    The border between Nordoid and Mediterranoid was partly quite difficult to draw in prehistoric skull material.
    How is Coons danubian term problematic? Funny that vingul also thinks that and he classifies Sharapova ( neo danubian) as "east nordic". Coon showed in TROE a good number of danubian types, but as he noted, Danubians are ofen mixed with ladogans and few of them remain.
    Some nordics mixed with UPs, others did not. I am not stating anything I cant see. And I see Corded+Danubian morphologies in Nordic types and each time I look in the mirror.

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    AW: Corded Sub-Type

    Sharapova is indeed pred. Eastnordid, at best minor Westbaltid/Baltid influences.

    His Neodanubians is a strange collection of very different rather Eastern related forms which only feature in common - not even that for all - are Lappoid influences. His terminology is just very weak and strange to begin with, wasnt reproduced by many others, and beside his Northern European-Nordoid distinctions which make at least some sense, especially his introduction of "modern Borreby" variants.

    "Neo-Danubians":
    http://med1nuc11.dfc.unifi.it/linnet.../texts/p31.htm

    What have those variants to do with Mediterranoid or Nordoid forms? Not too much...they form no unity at all. Different degrees of Baltisation or Lappoid influenced is all they have in common.

    His "Danubian" examples are just Mediterranids of various forms with different other elements being involved, mainly Cromagno-Alpinoid ones.
    http://med1nuc11.dfc.unifi.it/linnet.../texts/p28.htm

    As he says himself:
    In contrast to the last plate, the present one shows a series of Nordics in whom the Corded element is notably weak or absent, so that an approximation to the earlier, smaller-headed, mesocephalic Danubian strain is perhaps attained. The reason for qualification on this score is that not enough Danubian crania have been found and described to make this point certain.
    Furthermore if we assume such a variant existed in greater numbers in the past, no matter how it came up, I would put it rather closer to Palaeatlantid and Berid like forms as well as broader build Mediterranoids of other variants, close to later Alpinoids in some regions, so they disappeared rather by Alpinisation than Nordisation. The forms shown by Coon show nothing which is necessary for making out of a Corded a modern Nordid.

    Those Mediterranoids which played in probably are closer to Atlanto-Pontids and gracile Mediterranids...
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    Re: AW: Corded Sub-Type

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa View Post
    Sharapova is indeed pred. Eastnordid, at best minor Westbaltid/Baltid influences.

    His Neodanubians is a strange collection of very different rather Eastern related forms which only feature in common - not even that for all - are Lappoid influences. His terminology is just very weak and strange to begin with, wasnt reproduced by many others, and beside his Northern European-Nordoid distinctions which make at least some sense, especially his introduction of "modern Borreby" variants.

    "Neo-Danubians":
    http://med1nuc11.dfc.unifi.it/linnet.../texts/p31.htm

    What have those variants to do with Mediterranoid or Nordoid forms? Not too much...they form no unity at all. Different degrees of Baltisation or Lappoid influenced is all they have in common.

    His "Danubian" examples are just Mediterranids of various forms with different other elements being involved, mainly Cromagno-Alpinoid ones.
    http://med1nuc11.dfc.unifi.it/linnet.../texts/p28.htm

    As he says himself:


    Furthermore if we assume such a variant existed in greater numbers in the past, no matter how it came up, I would put it rather closer to Palaeatlantid and Berid like forms as well as broader build Mediterranoids of other variants, close to later Alpinoids in some regions, so they disappeared rather by Alpinisation than Nordisation. The forms shown by Coon show nothing which is necessary for making out of a Corded a modern Nordid.

    Those Mediterranoids which played in probably are closer to Atlanto-Pontids and gracile Mediterranids...
    If by "east nordic" you mean those corded like types you see in the gallery, then there is NO way she is east nordic. Sharapova is danubian with some branchi semi mongoloid admixture, most likely ladogan.

    In this picture, her danubian aspect is quite evident. Compare her with the man from TROE. There is no way that type can be mistaken with the corded, its shorter nosed, more globular and less skeletical.

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    So decide yourself:if by "east nordic" you mean a certain corded-like type in eastern europe then she is not "east nordic", if you mean any ingredient of the nordic solution in eastern europe then the nordic race is product of danubian admixture.

    If you believe danubians mixed with alpines, provide some evidence for it. Nobody is denying danubian is a med type in eastern europe, it could even be close to the pontid type. I assume at first you meant ladogan not lappoid. Those danubians arent just meds, they are meds of a certain type that Coon describes and only the last one has considerable mixture from non med types (the first could have some corded)
    Last edited by Amorsite; Sunday, August 13th, 2006 at 05:08 PM.

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    AW: Re: AW: Corded Sub-Type

    Quote Originally Posted by raboy View Post
    If by "east nordic" you mean those corded like types you see in the gallery, then there is NO way she is east nordic. Sharapova is danubian with some branchi semi mongoloid admixture, most likely ladogan.
    As I said, she seems to have Osteuropid admixture/influences most likely, Dementieva would be a good example for Eastnordid in comparison. However, the Nordid part is still dominant and there is nothing Mongoloid of any sort in her visible in the phenotype.

    In this picture, her danubian aspect is quite evident. Compare her with the man from TROE. There is no way that type can be mistaken with the corded, its shorter nosed, more globular and less skeletical.
    I would call that Osteuropid/Baltid admixture though.

    Nobody is denying danubian is a med type in eastern europe, it could even be close to the pontid type.
    The real Danubians yes, Coons invention is another matter and deviates from practically all other systems on that.

    I assume at first you meant ladogan not lappoid.
    Ladogan and Lappoid is practically the same.

    Those danubians arent just meds, they are meds of a certain type that Coon describes and only the last one has considerable mixture from non med types (the first could have some corded)
    They have a Cromagnoid component and aren't fully Mediterranid - at least some of them, especially the last one.
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