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Thread: Troender types

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    Senior Member cosmocreator's Avatar
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    Post Troender types

    SNPA says that Tronder is a mix of Nordic and Brunn. I've been think that Tronder is actually a mix of Atlanto-Med and Brunn. Anyone have any thoughts?

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    Post Re: Tronder

    Quote Originally Posted by cosmocreator
    SNPA says that Tronder is a mix of Nordic and Brunn. I've been think that Tronder is actually a mix of Atlanto-Med and Brunn. Anyone have any thoughts?
    Can't be to my thinking, because Atlanto-Meds never penetrated so far to the northeast in the regions of Sweden and Norway where the Tronder type is to be found. The element responsible for the admixture has to be Upper Paleolithic remnants in the far north, i.e. "Brunn".

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    Senior Member cosmocreator's Avatar
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    Post Re: Tronder

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki
    Can't be to my thinking, because Atlanto-Meds never penetrated so far to the northeast in the regions of Sweden and Norway where the Tronder type is to be found. The element responsible for the admixture has to be Upper Paleolithic remnants in the far north, i.e. "Brunn".

    It's the Frontal Bossa that seem to be shared with Atlanto-Meds and Tronder that make me think that. Both have long narrow faces. I should think about it more and compare similarities.

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    Post Re: Tronder

    Loki, and what about the Keltic Nordics? Don't you think they're Dinarics + Brunn?

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    Senior Member cosmocreator's Avatar
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    Post Re: Tronder

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki
    Can't be to my thinking, because Atlanto-Meds never penetrated so far to the northeast in the regions of Sweden and Norway where the Tronder type is to be found. The element responsible for the admixture has to be Upper Paleolithic remnants in the far north, i.e. "Brunn".
    I just compared the measurements of the three. I really do think Tronder is Atlanto-Med/Brunn mix.

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    Post Re: Tronder

    There is more on Troender in my thread *Scandinavian Ethno-archaeology*:

    http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthre...3900#post73900

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    Post Re: Tronder

    There was some Atlantid penetration so far in the North and maybe it played a role but I doubt the major one.

    Maybe Troender is a stabilized mixture of more than 2 races with Nordid dominating.

    I personnally consider them as a Nordid subtype in the narrower sence of Nordid. (like Hallstatt, Troender, Keltic/Anglo Saxon and corded/Eastnordid)

    In the wider sence I consider Dalofaelid and probably Bruenn as Nordic.
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    Post Re: Tronder

    My measurements and features are somewhat similar to Tronders.
    Perhaps it's because of the mixture of similar ingredients happening in different places in Europe.

    Cosmo could be right about the ingredients in Tronders.

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    Post Re: Tronder

    Description:

    The Trønder is a variable racial strain, ranging in type from large, Irish-looking Brünn individuals and tall, slender Battle-Axe survivors, to almost completely Nordic populations. This range is well represented throughout the population of western and central Norway - the Trønder homeland - from out which wandered the hordes of Vikings who came to settle parts of Iceland, Scotland, and northeastern England more than a thousand years ago, leaving an important racial imprint abroad.

    The two central Norwegian Trøndelag provinces, Nord- and Sør-Trøndelag, form the northern geographical extreme of the Trønder type, which is mostly Nordic and very high-vaulted, most probably due to the presence of a strong Battle-Axe strain. This type is concentrated in the valley of Orkdal in Sør-Trøndelag, and predominates north of the Dovre mountains from Nordmøre eastward into Sweden (Jämtland). The western Norwegian inland contains a similar population, albeit one in which the Brünn element is much stronger and the Battle-Axe strain is at times negligible. One exeption to this western rule is the population of Hardanger, which is strikingly long-headed, and which seems to be of predominantly Battle-Axe and Nordic type. In this Hardanger type the Brünn strain is more masked.

    The Trønder is the tallest of the Norwegian racial types, which also makes it one of Europe's tallest. It is a slender type, although not as slender as the local Hallstatt Nordic, and its bones are larger and heavier than what is typically Nordic. Due to a strong sexual dimorphism, Trønder females are seldom correspondingly big-boned. The head form is high mesocephalic (c.i. typically 78-80; with the exeption of the Hardanger type, which is dolicho-mesocephalic), and the face is of considerable length. The forehead is very high, and at the same time both broader and much less sloping than that of the Hallstatt Nordic. Frontal bosses, a non-Nordic trait, are frequently found, and the temporal region is much fuller. In addition, the transitions from frontal to temporal and frontal to parietal regions are smooth and difficult to find, whereas on the Nordic head they are clearly marked.

    The nose is typically straight or convex, with a wide display of wavy forms (the Hardanger type is, for instance, frequently convex-nosed), and the transition between bone and cartilage is difficult to locate without palpation (feeling with the fingers), another feature which serves to distinguish the general Trønder type from the local Nordic.

    The zygomatic arches of the Trønder type are less prominent than those of the Hallstatt Nordic, and the gonial angles are compressed and not visible. The skull is more rounded and the occiput less prominently curved than that of the Nordic type.

    The Trønder is one of the world's bluest-eyed racial types - light-mixed blue is the predominant eye color. The hair is wavy and ranges in color from brown to golden blond. Rufosity is common, whereas ash-blond shades, a typical Hallstatt Nordic trait, are rarer. The skin is coarser in texture and tougher than regular Nordic skin, and the hair is more abundant on beard and body.
    Last edited by Awar; Tuesday, January 20th, 2004 at 10:39 AM.

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    Post Re: Tronder

    Lundman put the very tall Trönder in an East-Nordid racial tree. The other East-Nordid type is supposed to be Aistin, which is thought to be frequent in SW Finland and W Estonia. Both are put there merely because of their higher skull. I suspect that SNPA is pointing to Aistin with trans-Baltic Trønder approximation, under its Related Types, in the Trønder category.

    It is said that Trönder in Hälsingland and Eastern Uppland approximate Aistin, whereas it has a stronger element of Coon's Brünn in Norway.

    Trönder is the same as Flodström's Sveatyp, which is thought to be the most frequent Nordid type in Germany (the North-west has Götatyp too), but England has more Götatyp.

    Trönder is a variation of the Nordid type, alongside Götatyp (common in SE Norway and the neighbouring region of SW Sweden), with its sub-race Västmanlandstyp.

    I shall only translate the part of Lundman's outline regarding the Trönder type in "Nordens Rastyper" about the Nordid race in Scandinavia. I will leave the description about Götatypen and Västmanlandstypen blank.

    Original text in Swedish:

    Rasöversikt. Nordens nuvarande folkstockar.

    A. "Stornordiska huvudrasen": kännetecken ovan angivna. Två undertyper:

    a) Götatypen:

    b) Tröndetypen: Ögon mer gråblå, något högre huvud (HLI c. 71-72). Pannan något brantare och bredare samt mer rundad å sidorna. Utbredning: Nordanfjällska Norge samt Sverige framför allt mellan Ångermanälven och Dalälven; Åland m. m.

    B. Underras: Västmanlandstypen:

    Translated from Swedish to English:

    Racial Outline. The Nordic countries present folk stocks.

    A. "The Greater Nordic main race" : distinguishing features stated above. Two sub-types:

    a) Götatypen

    b) Tröndetypen: Eyes more grey-blue, somewhat higher head (HLI 71-72). The forehead somewhat steeper and broader and more rounded on the sides. Distribution: Northern mountains of Norway and Sweden above all between Ångermanälven och Dalälven; Åland m. m.

    B. Sub-race: Västmanlandstypen

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