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Thread: Men Cleverer Than Women, Say Scientists

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    Men Cleverer Than Women, Say Scientists

    Men Cleverer Than Women, Say Scientists

    Andrew Denholm, Herald (Glasgow), Aug. 25

    Men have larger brains—and higher IQs—than women, according to a controversial new study.

    In a paper for the British Journal of Psychology, which is bound to reignite the academic row about gender differences, one of Britain’s most controversial academics argues that men are more likely than women to win Nobel prizes and gain academic distinction because they are more intelligent.

    Richard Lynn, emeritus professor of psychology at Ulster University, who has caused outrage in the past with claims that white people are more intelligent than blacks and that criminal traits are genetic, will publish the work with Paul Irwing, senior lecturer in organisational psychology at Manchester University.

    Professor Lynn believes that the differences between the sexes make men better suited to “tasks of high complexity” than their female counterparts.

    Dr Irwing told The Times Higher Education Supplement that he would prefer it if their research was wrong. However, after resolving to put “scientific truth” above his personal views, he said he had concluded that there was a very strong case that men not only had larger brains, but had a higher IQ, by about five points, compared with women.

    The paper will argue that, while many academics have denied any IQ difference, those who have acknowledged a difference have argued that it is too small to be significant.

    Dr Irwing said: “We do not think that a five IQ point difference can be so easily dismissed.”

    He said that the difference meant there was a much higher proportion of men with higher IQs, with three men to each woman with an IQ above 130 and 5.5 men for each woman with an IQ above 145.

    “These different proportions of men and women with high IQ scores are clearly worth speaking of and may go some way to explaining the greater numbers of men achieving distinctions of various kinds for which a high IQ is required, such as chess grandmasters, Fields medallists for mathematics, Nobel prizewinners and the like,” he said.

    The researchers acknowledge that women now outnumber men at every level of educational achievement, with the sole exception of PhD level, and conclude that the IQ difference cannot sufficiently explain gender inequalities in the workplace—where men still grossly outnumber women at the highest levels.

    The paper will argue that there is evidence that at the same level of IQ women are able to “achieve more” than men, “possibly because they are more conscientious and better adapted to sustained periods of hard work”. And it will cite a previous study has concluded that IQs in the region of 125 are adequate to “ascend to all levels in the labour market”.

    “The small male advantage in IQ is, therefore, likely to be of most significance for tasks of high complexity,” said Dr Irwing.

    Professor Lynn has been accused of racism over his theories and has also been criticised for receiving funding from the New York-based Pioneer Fund, which was said to have had Nazi connections in the 1930s.

    He also forecast that genetic engineering combined with natural trends would turn the advanced and the developing countries into two worlds—one a stable, rich society of intelligent individuals, the other populated by people of low IQ and beset by poverty and famine.

    Testing questions

    1 Three swans and one cat have a total of 11 legs. True or False?

    2 If you hang an ordinary wall clock upside down when the time is 3.30pm, the hour hand will point right. True or False?

    3 You get 10 pieces of cake by making five diagonal cuts through its centre. True or False?

    4 If Marc is taller than Nick and Craig is shorter than Marc, Marc is the tallest. True or False?

    5 Three of the following numbers add up to 29: 15, 12, 6, 3, 1.

    True or False?

    5 correct = Superior intelligence
    4 correct = Normal intelligence
    3 correct = Dullness
    2 correct = Borderline deficiency
    1 correct = Feeble-mindedness

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    Post 'Men cleverer than women' claim scientists

    "Academics in the UK claim their research shows that men are more intelligent than women.
    A study to be published later this year in the British Journal of Psychology says that men are on average five points ahead on IQ tests.
    Paul Irwing and Professor Richard Lynn claim the difference grows when the highest IQ levels are considered.
    Their research was based on IQ tests given to 80,000 people and a further study of 20,000 students.
    'Widening gap'
    Dr Irwing, a senior lecturer in organisational psychology at Manchester University, told the Today programme on BBC Radio Four the study showed that, up to the age of 14, there was no difference between the IQs of boys and girls.
    "But beyond that age and into adulthood there is a difference of five points, which is small but it can have important implications," he said.
    "This is against a background of women dramatically overtaking men in educational attainment and making very rapid advances in terms of occupational achievement."
    The academics used a test which is said to measure "general cognitive ability" - spatial and verbal ability.
    As intelligence scores among the study group rose, the academics say they found a widening gap between the sexes.
    There were twice as many men with IQ scores of 125, for example, a level said to correspond with people getting first-class degrees.
    At scores of 155, associated with genius, there were 5.5 men for every woman.
    Nobel prize-winners
    Dr Irwing told The Times the differences "may go some way to explaining the greater numbers of men achieving distinctions of various kinds, such as chess grandmasters, Fields medallists for mathematics, Nobel prize-winners and the like".
    The paper will argue that there is evidence that at the same level of IQ, women are able to achieve more than men "possibly because they are more conscientious and better adapted to sustained periods of hard work".
    Earlier this year, the president of Harvard University, Lawrence Summers, sparked controversy when he suggested at a seminar that one reason men outperformed women in maths and science was genetics.
    Several guests walked out of the conference after hearing the comments.
    Dr Summers, who has apologised repeatedly for his remarks, said later that the shortage of senior female academics was partly caused by child-minding duties, which restricted working hours."



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    The paper will argue that there is evidence that at the same level of IQ, women are able to achieve more than men "possibly because they are more conscientious and better adapted to sustained periods of hard work".
    The educational system we have at the moment in the Western world is definitely made for women more than for men, because there is no strong group pressure, no hierarchy because of achievements in school or between teacher and pupil, no violent punishments and generally norms which work against male nature and behaviour whereas girls fit in much better and seem still more often think along the lines of "having a privilege" to do things more boys refuse. You can see the same pattern if its about altar boys in many regions, for many boys it was more a duty and the fun was just to play with the comrades afterwards, but girls, once altar girls were allowed, saw it as a privilege. Furthermore they tend to adapt themselves more to social structures, want to live in harmony and are less bold.
    Magna Europa est patria nostra
    STOP GATS! STOP LIBERALISM!

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    Post Re: 'Men cleverer than women' claim scientists

    I remember in school that girls complained that guys took all the place in classroom. We were in an environment which was almost like affirmative action.

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    Post Re: 'Men cleverer than women' claim scientists

    When did they start doing studies on common sense?
    "People demand freedom of speech as compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use" - Soren Kierkegaard

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    Post Re: 'Men cleverer than women' claim scientists

    This is good. I am exposed to all this gynocratic horsesh** all the time, it would make one think that we are preparing for a coming matriarchy in the modern "free" world. Score one for the men. This girl at my college was arguing in a paper that SAT scores were made for white males seeing as they score better on SATs than blacks or women. I said "What do you mean these tests are geared toward white men? Why should they have afro-centric questions when we in America live in a former European colony founded by Europeans!, if I was in China, I wouldn't expect them to accomodate me in their educational system, if I grew up in China I should know about their history and culture as well as my own." And I said "If men score better on SATs and yet there are more women in colleges today, then couldn't I argue that there is a bias toward females in our institutions are higher education?"

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    Post Re: 'Men cleverer than women' claim scientists

    I had a nicely composed response post, but then my browser froze up and I lost it. Here is my poor attempt at reproducing it.

    I would be interested in reading the study once it is published later this year. A 5 point difference hardly seems statistically significant. The fact that the researcher is quoted as saying "which is small but it can have important implications" makes me think that perhaps they were not statistically significant. Psychological researchers use lots of fancy jargon like this and nice terms such as "approaching significance." I'll have to hold my breath untill the study is published in order to find out.

    Also, the study found that up until age 14, there was no difference in IQ, but in early adulthood there is a 5 point difference. I am guessing that this was not a longitudinal study, since it was based upon both a study of 80,000 and then on a study of 20,000 (i.e. two different studies.) I am also guessing since it was not longitudinal that their samples were different. These are, of course, guesses of mine based upon what is reported in the article since I am unable at present to read the actual study.

    IQ is found to be stable from middle-late childhood to adulthood. Numerous studies have found evidence of this stability such as the Seattle Longitudinal Study. If the study in the article above found significant differences between IQ differences at age 14 and those at youg adulthood, then it flys in the face of copious amounts of previous research. Which brings me to my next point.....

    The study used a sample of 20,000 students. Key word: students. College students are often used in research but are hardly a representative sample of the general population. If you study the IQ of 14 year olds from the general population, and then compare the results to the IQ of a non-representative sample (i.e. college students) then you are bound to find differences. Notice that the study found greater gender differences the higher the IQ was. This may in fact be true, but by studying college students you are already limiting yourself to a portion of the population that are of at least average intelligence (and higher) which means that you are more likely to find a difference than if you tested the general population.

    My guess is that in the general population, there is no significant difference between men and women's IQ's, but as IQ rises, also does a difference. This is the most probable conclusion of the findings of the above study (without having actually read it.) This means that, yes, more males than females have a high IQ, but you must consider the small amount of the population that even fall into this category. Approximately only 5% or less of the population even fall into this category of scores greater than 125. This means that in the top 5% of the population there is a difference between male and female IQ scores. Let's also not forget that the highest recorded IQ is held by a woman: Marilyn Vos Savant.

    Anyhow, I have much much more on this topic that I could post, but my husband just came home and it is time for dinner. Plus, I lost my other post which was better than this one. Here are some links to support a couple of things I have written. I know they are not really legit sites, so if you really want some scholarly articles, I can produce you a full works cited list, but you will have to wait until I finish the paper I am currently working on for school.

    http://www.audiblox.com/iq_scores.htm
    http://bric.postech.ac.kr/science/97...w/010416a.html
    http://personal.ecu.edu/ironsmithe/psich09.htm
    http://www.geocities.com/rnseitz/Definition_of_IQ.html

    Last edited by QuietWind; Wednesday, August 31st, 2005 at 12:13 AM.
    "I do not know what horrified me most at that time: the economic misery of my companions, their moral and ethical coarseness, or the low level of their intellectual development." Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

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    Post Re: 'Men cleverer than women' claim scientists

    Agrippa: hummm.... so... it was here huh?
    That people breed with those they find attractive within their own ethnic population is all the eugenics I think is necessary. - Milesian

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    Post Re: 'Men cleverer than women' claim scientists

    I wonder are there any female scientists who feel the same way.

    I think it could relate to the fact that males have more time to develop before they fully mature. And traditionally have always held the roles of leaders in society/family which is very demanding on the intellect.

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    Post Re: 'Men cleverer than women' claim scientists

    Quote Originally Posted by Rycerz
    Just curious -- is "cleverer" even a word or should it be "more clever?"
    It's a word.

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